Enforcement of Electrical Licensing Laws

[mgookin]

In Florida unlicensed contracting during a state of emergency is a felony and you will be arrested on the spot. This is to prevent gypsies from coming down taking everyone's insurance checks and taking off with the money and doing no work.

Absent a state of emergency a first offense is a misdemeanor. The construction industry licensing board (CILB) only has jurisdiction over licensed parties so the department of business and professional regulation (DBPR) will prosecute it through the state attorney's office.

There are both stings and sweeps during both state of emergency and normal times.

On sweeps there will also be workmen's comp investigators, local bldg. dept officials, state licensing investigators, local sheriff's deputies, and even border patrol at times.

The greatest spanking comes from the workmen's comp investigators. I believe it's $1k per day per worker.

If you aspire to be an unlicensed contractor, don't do it in Florida.

 

[GoldDigger]

Start at page 10 of this newsletter for some cases in NC.

Roger

Wow! Eighteen pages of the 28 page newsletter were violations and sanctions. I guess that there was not much else going on.

Note that the only mentions of arrest or jail time were in relation to criminal contempt of court with respect to a previous civil court order.

 

[roger]

Hi Roger, I like reading the newsletter to see if there is someone I know in there. For every one else NC doesn't play around as you can see by the newsletter. Have seen several that were brought before the board and disciplined with a suspension of their license only to be caught again. They were taken to court and got jail time over it.

Hey Curtis, I like reading it for the same reason. Over the years there have been a couple people I knew in there, one for pulling permits for others and one for not completing a job.

Are you and Wanda coming this way this spring?

Roger

 

[roger]

Wow! Eighteen pages of the 28 page newsletter were violations and sanctions. I guess that there was not much else going on.

Actually there is a good bit going on in NC which is probably the reason so many try to get away with violating the laws

Note that the only mentions of arrest or jail time were in relation to criminal contempt of court with respect to a previous civil court order.

That is true, in most cases it ends with court costs, fines, probation, or suspension. Some just can't seem to learn though.

Roger

 

[mgookin]

As a young(er) building inspector on the job about a year I was walking through our downtown core and came across an open door with lots of construction debris. I walked in and identified myself. I asked if there were any permits on the job and they said no. I asked "Are you a licensed contractor" and this guy said "No, but I do real good work. You can call the inspector in New Jersey and he'll tell you so." I posted my STOP WORK order and left.

A week later he's in my office trying to get a permit. I told him I can only sell a permit to a licensed contractor. He asked for me to show him something in writing that says that. So I called my buddy the state licensing investigator across the street and asked him to walk over and "show him something that says that" and he came right over.

About 2 years later I was in a building and the elevator opens. He was getting off the elevator. He was very angry with me, chewed me out, made threats, etc. saying I cost him $15,000.

I told him the same thing I tell everyone. Go get a license!

 

[Canton]

This post is kind of a survey as to what each States Electrical Licensing requirements are and how it is being enforced so if any willing participants would like to post this information it would be greatly appreciated.

Here in the People's Republic of MARYLAND, the punishment for Unlicensed Electrical Work is.... you could be EXECUTED!!!.........na just kidding.

The State does not investigate complaints, that is the job of the local counties and municipalities. They vary on enforcement practices.

 

[roger]

I asked "Are you a licensed contractor" and this guy said "No, but I do real good work. You can call the inspector in New Jersey and he'll tell you so."

Being a Fl native and spending the first third of my electrical career there I can relate to you hearing the "call the northern state officials where I migrated from" argument.

Roger

 

[kwired]

In Florida unlicensed contracting during a state of emergency is a felony and you will be arrested on the spot. This is to prevent gypsies from coming down taking everyone's insurance checks and taking off with the money and doing no work.

Seems to me if you take their money then stick around to do some work your chances of getting caught are much greater then if you just took their money and ran

Hey Curtis, I like reading it for the same reason. Over the years there have been a couple people I knew in there, one for pulling permits for others and one for not completing a job.

What is up with not completing a job? I have had many uncompleted jobs, if customer stops paying, goes bankrupt, disappears, no way am I finishing on my dime. Inspector can order power disconnected if not safe and if someone else wishes to take it on and finish then they have to pull their own permit to proceed.

Here in the People's Republic of MARYLAND, the punishment for Unlicensed Electrical Work is.... you could be EXECUTED!!!.........na just kidding.

The State does not investigate complaints, that is the job of the local counties and municipalities. They vary on enforcement practices.

The State here has the licensed people under control, they can always put restrictions on the license or take it away as a worst case scenario, but non licensed people would need to be taken to court to do any real hurt to them, and that is not happening in every case, only the stubborn ones that see the early warnings as not a real threat. Sadly the most serious punishment likely comes after someone is injured or killed, and then it is kind of up to surviving family to press any charges.

 

[roger]

What is up with not completing a job? I have had many uncompleted jobs, if customer stops paying, goes bankrupt, disappears, no way am I finishing on my dime. Inspector can order power disconnected if not safe and if someone else wishes to take it on and finish then they have to pull their own permit to proceed.

This is where jumping to a conclusion can get you on the wrong path.

In this case the customer had paid the particular EC all monies owed to date but couldn't get the EC to come finish the project in a timely fashion. The truth of the matter was that the EC took a job a considerable distance from where he was based out of and it became non profitable to finish it, so he was rightfully punished when he ignored it.

I would say it is a safe bet that he also low balled the price to get it from EC's closer to the job and that made it more of a hit to his pocket.

Roger

 

[kwired]

This is where jumping to a conclusion can get you on the wrong path.

In this case the customer had paid the particular EC all monies owed to date but couldn't get the EC to come finish the project in a timely fashion. The truth of the matter was that the EC took a job a considerable distance from where he was based out of and it became non profitable to finish it, so he was rightfully punished when he ignored it.

I would say it is a safe bet that he also low balled the price to get it from EC's closer to the job and that made it more of a hit to his pocket.

Roger

Again a difference in location. I understand what you are saying, but if I did that here I wouldn't take a hit on licensing, it would be a civil court case matter between myself and the client. State Electrical Act only includes monetary amounts and circumstances involving it's own fees, not monetary circumstances of the contractor and project owner relationship, and IMO that is how it should be, it is a business problem not an electrical professional problem. I do understand where in some places business licensing and professional licensing are administered by the same organization and they may tie issues with each aspect of operating a business closer together, but not real sure that I think it is right. The ability to "practice" and the ability to operate a business are not the same thing.

Here there is no separate Masters and contractors license like there is in other places. The Electrical Division only offers journeyman and contractors licenses, some special installers licenses that limit work to certain aspects - one being fire alarm installer. They used to have a residential and unlimited contractor, master and journeyman but did away with all but the general contractor and general journeyman for all new licenses. But since have added some residential categories - but I believe just at the journeyman level.

The contractors license is not necessarily an automatic right to open a business it is just a professional level license that allows one to do those particular tasks, any other legally required business activities are regulated by other related organizations and the State Electrical Division could care less what your status is in those areas. If you try to pull a permit all that is required is you have the proper contractors license, and minimum required insurance certificate on their files. What happens after that outside of their rules on electrical issues is not their problem. Their job is codes not other legal issues, and they are very professional about it IMO. Employee issues is for the department of labor, other business issues are for department of revenue, or even the attorney generals office, or the city or county level organizations.

 

[__dan]

This post is kind of a survey as to what each States Electrical Licensing requirements are and how it is being enforced so if any willing participants would like to post this information it would be greatly appreciated.

Don't know yet ..

Start at page 10 of this newsletter for some cases in NC.

Roger

The Perp walk, yeahh ! Perps assigned investigation costs, named and shamed (for those that can be shamed).

 

[CT Tom]

CT

CT

In CT there are three different electricians licenses, E1, E2 and E9.

E1 is a contractors license, covers all aspects of electrical work, from data cables/alarm all the way up to load side of POCO equipment.

E2 covers same as E1, but must be done under employ of an E1.

Our apprentice ratio is 1-1 up to two E1/E2's, then it changes to a 3-2 ratio.

The E9 license was introduced years ago and subsequently discontinued but current license holders can maintain it. It is as I understand it a residential only contractors license, similar to an E1, but limited to homes.

There are LV license based on voltage level, C for alarm contractors, T for telephone contractors. I as an E1, can employ a LV licensed employee and keep them on as part of my ratio amount, so long as they only perform work covered by their license.

Enforcement here is a joke. I can count on two hands the number of companies doing LV work without a license or outside the scope of their license, and that number is just off the top of my head. An off the record response when taking my required continuing education was they are aware of the complaints, but lack the manpower to look into them.