engineering

[fifty five]

does any one know if coolers rated 120v 15a cord and plug connected
in store . have to be on a gfci. thanks I looked under gfci in code but
couldn't find answer.to clarify these are beer and wine coolers

 

[augie47]

Unless they are outside or in a kitchen, (210.8) or a vending machine (see 422.51 for definition), no

welcome to the forum

 

[weressl]

Unless they are outside or in a kitchen, (210.8) or a vending machine (see 422.51 for definition), no

welcome to the forum

If they are the directly connected, as opposed to the bottle type, wouldn't they represent the same hazard as a faucet in the kitchen or bathroom?

 

[augie47]

If they are the directly connected, as opposed to the bottle type, wouldn't they represent the same hazard as a faucet in the kitchen or bathroom?

IMHO, probably, but, it appears to me that most of the GCFI rules are designed around "plug in" equipment due to 2-wire equipment and the accidential or purposful loss of the equipment ground prong.
Equipment "directly connected" is less like to loose a ground sp apparently "safer"

 

[physis]

it appears to me that most of the GCFI rules are designed around "plug in" equipment

I agree.

due to 2-wire equipment and the accidential or purposful loss of the equipment ground prong.
Equipment "directly connected" is less like to loose a ground sp apparently "safer"

That doesn't work. The grounding conductor rather than reducing the possibility of shock or electricution actually increases it by providing an additional conductor to complete the circuit to hot. You're pretty much guaranteed that a grounding conductor is available somewhere, even if it's only the earth. The odds of finding a stray grounded conductor are fairly inprobable.

The GFCI doesn't even look at the grounding conductor, it compares the current between the hot and neutral and when it finds a predetermined difference it disconnects. The idea is, if the current coming from the ungrounded conductor doesn't match the current in the grounded conductor, there is current going someplace that is unintended, probably the grounding conuctor, but that really doesn't matter.

Edit: GFCI's work without a ground.

 

[augie47]

I agree.



That doesn't work. The grounding conductor rather than reducing the possibility of shock or electricution actually increases it by providing an additional conductor to complete the circuit to hot. You're pretty much guaranteed that a grounding conductor is available somewhere, even if it's only the earth. The odds of finding a stray grounded conductor are fairly inprobable.

The GFCI doesn't even look at the grounding conductor, it compares the current between the hot and neutral and when it finds a predetermined difference it disconnects. The idea is, if the current coming from the ungrounded conductor doesn't match the current in the grounded conductor, there is current going someplace that is unintended, probably the grounding conuctor, but that really doesn't matter.

Edit: GFCI's work without a ground.

But GFCI is not required on directly connected equipmet (with a few exceptions incl pools) including vending machines.
I can only assUme that the reason is they pose less danger as, with a direct connection, they are more than likley to remain grounded.

 

[physis]

I can only assUme that the reason is they pose less danger

I don't agree with the assumption. Keep in mind, CMP 2 authors this stuff. :grin: Sorry, sort a.

Is it beacaue you can have two fingers touching the hot and nuetral while plugging and unplugging equipment?

I do wish that the NFPA would produce something that could help us understand their reasoning, but they flattly refuse to.

 

[augie47]

instoppable force vs imovable object
I'll retain my thoughts, you retain yours and the CMP panels will continue unabated.

 

[physis]

Ah, hell Gus, I love the CMP's as much I as I dislike them for some of the weirdness they cause me to endure. I'm actually very serious when I say without CMP 2 my life would have less meaning, not that I've said that before.