English no my native languaje

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Esthy

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I have this situation and in one of the points in the report I am going to included the statement below, but I have hard time to explaining this to those ignorant a arrogant people. question; is this statement clear? Any help is greatly appreciated

9- At the 102 apartment ?someone? messed the electrical. The multiwire is in one phase using a tandem circuit breaker and this is a no-no, it must be on separated phases protected with a double pole breaker, but also this breaker is damaged because this tandem keep tripping and people resetting again and again. The ?someone? not knowing better, used this multiwire ? black & red ? as a parallel circuit when he joined those conductors at all the receptacles that he replaced and at the same time, for unknown reasons, he lost the neutral and losing the neutral caused on the receptacles that he didn?t ?joined? the ungrounded conductors (black & red) voltages fluctuations and as result, burning out appliances. Also this panel is a Zinsco and I strongly recommended replacing it, it is too old and breakers are not tripping under short circuits. There are several receptacles with no ground attached. New baseboard heaters directly under receptacles outlets, a no-no situation and several other violations. According to the handyman, there are several apartments with the same electrical problems. When your dad shows there and he said that replacing the 15 amps breaker for more ?powerful amps breakers? will solve the problem and he instructed me to so, of course I refused and I lost the job, he demonstrated not only his ignorance but his arrogant way in believing ?I know it all?, disregarding professional and licensed individuals and jeopardizing human lives. This is why I sent the report to Labor & Industries . I hope, for the tenants safety, that you already sent a licensed electrician to deal with that.
 
augie47 said:
Clear enough for the purpose, I'd say.
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I agree. I understand.
If it matters,,I have a supervisor leadman that passed jman test in multiple states without prep classes,went to school for this trade and sees the bigger picture way more than i do.
Because of his english he gets similar responses.
A method we use because safety does matter he will talk to the customer and if they seem biased he will have me talk to them. Many times how we understand and communicate is how it goes south..
If they called you they want to trust you..
Showing simple sollution or examples will help.
When it still goes bad we look at each other and then the customer and say we just need to wipe our finger prints off every thing we touched and document that you decline our opinion.......
 
Who are you writing? I have a very clear picture of what you're conveying, but the person reading it likely won't. If it's addressed to a non-electrical professional, you should find a way to dumb it down. Multiwire, tandem and other terms are too technical for many. It's also a common tendency for people to judge based on your writing, so taking some writing classes would be beneficial.
 
I don't know if the personal attacks will bring you the results you hope for, maybe there is a more tactful way than using words like "ignorance" and "arrogance."
 
Esthy said:
I have this situation and in one of the points in the report I am going to included the statement below, but I have hard time to explaining this to those ignorant a arrogant people. question; is this statement clear?
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Perhaps it is a language issue but I would be offended if I was called ignorant and arrogant even if that is accurate.

At the 102 apartment ?someone? messed the electrical.
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That sounds childish.

The multiwire is in one phase using a tandem circuit breaker and this is a no-no,
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That also sounds childish and would not be expected in a professional communication.

it must be on separated phases protected with a double pole breaker,
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That is false and when you point to others ignorance or arrogance you need to be sure you know the rules.

A double pole breaker has never been NEC required for multi-wire branch circuit. A double pole breaker is just one way to accomplish what the NEC requires.

Furthermore the requirement for a common disconnecting means on a multi-wire branch circuit is a fairly recent change. If the work was done under older code cycles single pole breakers were acceptable.

but also this breaker is damaged because this tandem keep tripping and people resetting again and again.
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How do you know the issue is with the breaker?

The ?someone? not knowing better, used this multiwire ? black & red ? as a parallel circuit when he joined those conductors at all the receptacles that he replaced
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Are they really joined or are they connected to the receptacle with the tab broken out between the terminals?

and at the same time, for unknown reasons, he lost the neutral and losing the neutral caused on the receptacles that he didn?t ?joined? the ungrounded conductors (black & red) voltages fluctuations and as result, burning out appliances.
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I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Also this panel is a Zinsco and I strongly recommended replacing it, it is too old and breakers are not tripping under short circuits.
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And how did you determine they are not tripping under short circuits?

Has a wire melted?

There are several receptacles with no ground attached.
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That may or may not be a violation, some receptacles are listed to 'self ground' when attached to a metal box.

New baseboard heaters directly under receptacles outlets,
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Are the baseboard heaters electric or forced hot water?

If they are electric heaters have you read the manufacturers direction to determine if they prohibit receptacles above them? The NEC does not directly prohibit it.


a no-no situation
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Find a more professional way to state your opinion.

and several other violations.
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In my opinion if you can not list and describe the violations you should not mention them.

According to the handyman, there are several apartments with the same electrical problems.
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If this is intended to be a professional report I would only include items I have direct knowledge of and not second hand information from a handyman.

When your dad shows there and he said that replacing the 15 amps breaker for more ?powerful amps breakers? will solve the problem and he instructed me to so, of course I refused
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Whose Dad and what do they have to do with the facts?


he demonstrated not only his ignorance but his arrogant way in believing ?I know it all?, disregarding professional and licensed individuals and jeopardizing human lives.
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I do not think personal attacks and unsubstantiated opinions belong in a professional communication.

This is why I sent the report to Labor & Industries .
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So the report has already been sent? If so I have been wasting my time responding to this question. :roll:
 
I agree with Bob's post and want to add a couple of things.

You state the the breakers and panel need to be replaced because they are Zinsco and will not trip but you also state that the breaker is bad because it has been reset so many times. If they are having to reset the breaker it must have been tripping like it is supposed to do. They need to address the reason for the breaker tripping.

You also comment on both legs of a multiwire circuit being connected to a tandem breaker being a hazard. That is exactly how they should be connected to a Zinsco tandem (R38) breaker. All Zinsco tandem breakers connect to opposite legs. They never built one with both poles connected to the same leg. I have seen more issues with Zinsco full sized breakers on multiwire circuits since the installer has to move the clip to the correct positions. The full size breakers come with the phase clip in one position and the installer has to adjust it in the field as needed.
 
curt swartz said:
I agree with Bob's post and want to add a couple of things.

You state the the breakers and panel need to be replaced because they are Zinsco and will not trip but you also state that the breaker is bad because it has been reset so many times. If they are having to reset the breaker it must have been tripping like it is supposed to do. They need to address the reason for the breaker tripping.

You also comment on both legs of a multiwire circuit being connected to a tandem breaker being a hazard. That is exactly how they should be connected to a Zinsco tandem (R38) breaker. All Zinsco tandem breakers connect to opposite legs. They never built one with both poles connected to the same leg. I have seen more issues with Zinsco full sized breakers on multiwire circuits since the installer has to move the clip to the correct positions. The full size breakers come with the phase clip in one position and the installer has to adjust it in the field as needed.
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agreed
 
My question is, did you right that? Or are you including something someone else wrote?

I have to say, if you wrote that, shame on you. You haven't cleared up anything. It's not right in any language.
Thanks
Mike
 
I'd probably sent this to the building dept & I do this only for safety sake;

To whom it may concern,
I was recently called to investigate electrical problems at a mulit-family complex, Blah blah balah address. My investigation results found multiple NEC violations & possible life safety issues with the electrical circuitry. The building maintence/owner (not sure which) John Smith & phone #, informed me that this is not an isolated case in the building. I made several suggestions which MR Smith rejected. His approach to fixing the problem was incorrect therfore I could not continue to help at that point. This letter is because I am concerned and have no other course but to report this to a proper authority. Here is my contact info Name, number if more information is needed.
Respecfully,
John Doe

Simple - to the point - show concern - documented with authorities.
 
I would like to do some clarification here; maybe it won?t be perfectly because of my lack of good English and I hope you understand.

I was dealing with a father and son. They manage some properties and after 2 days walking with the son and taking note of several violations in several apartments that needed immediately attention, the son agreed to do whatever necessary to fix the problem, but the father keep saying that they don?t want to spend money and licensees were only to make money. They have a handyman with a trainee electrical card expired that they contracted.

In one of the apartments, according with a phone conversation with the trainee one of the Tandem double breakers for the multiwire blew, it didn?t tripped and melted, so he replaced it with a single one and pigtailed both circuits (red & black) and connected the pigtail to that single breaker (?) - MY APOLOGIES FOR MY IDIOMATIC EXPRESSIONS OR TWISTED WORDS - so it created some problems and apparently he was working on the problem.

So, when a problem developed in another apartment, I went there and I asked the tenant what the problem was, she stated that the trainee replaced a melted breaker in the panel and replaced some receptacles in the kitchen and in the dinning/living room, but the refrigerator started smoking so he replaced the fridge and installed a GFIC beaker for the fridge but it didn?t work, so he ran an extension cord from a working receptacle to power the fridge and the microwave, but at the same time there was no power in the kitchen/dinning and some in the living room receptacles.

I opened the outlet for the fridge and found that both ungrounded conductors from the multiwire circuit (black & red ? bad idea for appliances circuits, but it is an old system) where joined in the same screw and the neutral was ?dead?, I separated the conductor and I read ?with the grounded? 120 in each conductor, at that moment I didn?t know what the trainee did. I opened another outlets and I found that he did the same - I am attaching a photo, it is not clear but maybe you will be able to see where he joined them (not with the tab broken ?). So, now there are several receptacles in this way, but also the neutral is gone. I tried to trip the breaker by shortening the ungrounded ( I know, this is a no-no, childish sound ?) but it didn?t tripped AND, also the tenant told me that several times the breaker tripped and by the trainee advice, she keep resetting it until it stop tripping (?).

I called on the phone the trainee again and he mentioned that some of the receptacles were reading high and this is why the fridge burned out, SO I stopped talking to him and tried, as I did several times, to perforate the father brain with the situation to re-done part of the electrical, BUT he keep insisting that replacing the 15 amps breakers for 20 or 30 amps was going to solve the problem AND I, been a 71 years old lost my patience and sent him to hell.

Also, the trainee installed a new PLASTIC BLUE box and new receptacle in the kitchen (I don?t know where he took the power and here is where he connected the extension cord) and he did not connected the ground, it was pushed to the back and by the way, the new ones he installed in the metal ones ? maybe they were self-ground ?? but if the grounding screw is there I will install it.

No, those new baseboard heaters are no forced hot water and I am thinking now that maybe the trainee took the power from the above receptacles, I don?t know ? I didn?t have the time to check.

So, some receptacles in this multiwire circuit are connected right but with the exception of the lack of the lost neutral causing the voltages fluctuation but other receptacles in the same circuit have the ungrounded conductors (black & red) joined in the same screw.

The only thing I feel sorry to walk away from it is that I really am curious to see what this trainee did and of course the satisfaction in fixing it.

In another note: In 1999, I starting using double pole breakers and identifying the neutral by plastic ties on all multiwire circuits and now I think it is mandatory!

I respect anyone in the forum and I value their opinions, I learned a lot and I have a highly opinion and respect for iwire, he has been like a mentor for me here. But in my book, anyone that plays with the lives of other human beings, especially when it is noticed, is a criminal and I don?t have any respect for them. I didn?t have the expertise to do a good post, but I explained the situation to the father and he does not want to understand ? but his son did.

I really hope that I explained myself better here, but if not, then my apologies and I will not bring this topic again.
 
Smart $ said:
That comment just made my day!!!

:rotflmao:
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I loved the entire paragraph.

"I called on the phone the trainee again and he mentioned that some of the receptacles were reading high and this is why the fridge burned out, SO I stopped talking to him and tried, as I did several times, to perforate the father brain with the situation to re-done part of the electrical, BUT he keep insisting that replacing the 15 amps breakers for 20 or 30 amps was going to solve the problem AND I, been a 71 years old lost my patience and sent him to hell."

This is a classic.

I would like to suggest that we do all we can to help Esthy with conveying matters in English, or at least American English, lest we miss the original UN-edited version.

Esthy, your English may be lacking, but your ability to get the point across is not too far off the mark.

Posting questons here also tells us another thing. You are serious about your work and are trying to improve yourself in that respect.

Hopefully, our suggestions are taken as they were meant, to help someone that has shown a desire to help oneself.
 
In looking at your photos, especially the one of the panel it looks like those twin breakers at the far right look greater than 15 or 20. the wire size looks 15 or 20. Oversized breakers.

also the outlet may or may not be wired incorrectly it is too hard to see from my computer.
 
electricalist said:
15 amp twin is blue 20 amp twin is red on the big box store site.
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I wonder as well if the red on the screw is the same as the red in the background. If it's a mwbc then the amount of wires don't add up.
2 hots in leaves = 2 hots out or 2 hots end or 1 hot stays 1 hot keeps going...either way only 2 u g conductors don't appear to add up 2 multipliers unless they both end there.
 
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