Entire panel of breakers tripping off.

[Sierrasparky]

WOW if the non AFCI breakers are tripping then I'd say gremlins.

Try this:
There should be no current on the grounding wire. If this is a sub panel as it sounds like. Can you isolate the feeder grounding wire and place a amp probe around it. If you see current on the ground ( not the N) then trace it back from there. Turn on loads , Turn on oven.

And since when don't Siemens breakers trip to the center vs off. Maybe you have some counterfiet breakers.

 

[GoldDigger]

And since when don't Siemens breakers trip to the center vs off. Maybe you have some counterfiet breakers.

If counterfeit, they might be vibration sensitive and tripping from a nearby impact of some sort.

 

[big john]

If counterfeit, they might be vibration sensitive and tripping from a nearby impact of some sort.

If they're that sensitive, he should be able to reproduce this by knocking on the panel or breaker-faces with his knuckles.

 

[GoldDigger]

If they're that sensitive, he should be able to reproduce this by knocking on the panel or breaker-faces with his knuckles.

Or his head.

 

[Jraef]

... And since when don't Siemens breakers trip to the center vs off. Maybe you have some counterfiet breakers.

Yeah, that statement about tripping to the Off position has me thinking counterfeit too. There are no legitimate Siemens breakers that do that.

Some time after I left Siemens, they got hit with a HUGE wave of counterfeit QPs coming from China, including the AFCI versions. I was working with an OEM building assemblies for HVAC skids that had little 12 circuit sub panels on it and he told me he was offered 5,000 Siemens Q115 breakers for what worked out to be $1.22 each. I told him it was too good to be true, he bought them anyway. They were all fakes. We broke one open, there was no sensing mechanism inside at all, just a switch, a catch and a pawl. So there would have been no "Trip" position on those I suppose either!

One way to spot those by the way, they did not have the white paint in the numbers on the handle. The "15" was molded into the plastic, but it was all black; I guess wiping them with white paint adds 1 cent to their costs, and at $1.22 each, every cent counts.

 

[mopowr steve]

I have to agree about the possible counterfeit breakers. Also I believe the OP may have one breaker/s that when tripping are mechanically vibrating the other ones to trip. I've seen this first hand also.

 

[delectric123]

This reminds me of an incident somebody told me. They were feeding temporary power into a house under construction. The breaker panel was a Square D Homeline with AFCI breakers. Somehow the neutral unknowingly got chopped off with a lawn mower. When they disconnected the temporary power and turned on the main power all the breakers flipped. In they end they had to replace every single one of them..

 

[DrSparks]

Bad neutral. Test your hot to neutral voltage from both legs. And for the heck of it, your hot to hot.

 

[rlundsrud]

particle accelerators

particle accelerators

Does a potato gun count as a particle accelerator?

 

[FionaZuppa]

I have to agree about the possible counterfeit breakers. Also I believe the OP may have one breaker/s that when tripping are mechanically vibrating the other ones to trip. I've seen this first hand also.

begs the Q, did OP install the other panels too? if so were all the breakers purchased at same time? if so and this issue is isolated to the one panel i would say low probability of counterfeit. but, perhaps pull one and send to Siemens asking "this one acts funny, trips to off position when in panel #xyz but w/o any wires attached, is it counterfeit or perhaps from a bad batch of breakers?"

Siemens did a breaker recall in 2010, but it was for bad spring clips which made it a fire hazard.

 

[scolaz]

All panels, breakers, and meter stack were provided by Siemens in one gear pack. Yes we wired the entire building, all 4 units. Not happening from basketball hitting it, as I said it has happened with us there. Sorry for the confusion on the status of the breakers position. The breakers all go to the off position even the AF breakers not a center trip. If the home owner has many things running, washer, dryer, fans the breakers shut off more ofter. With less on it does it much less and not always the entire panel.
I am going to try taking out all of the AF breakers for a week or so to see if the problem stops or changes at all. Then my next step is to change the interior of the panel with a new one.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[FionaZuppa]

hmmm, puzzle, almost sounds like you are describing some faulty wiring. how exactly do all 4 panels get their power from the utility?

 

[scolaz]

5 gang meter stack on the south side of the building. Each meter has 125 amp main breaker beside it. All terminations in the meter stack have been verified for the correct placement and have been torqued.

 

[mwm1752]

As a young electrician I was entrusted to a large residential for a new employer -- when I was trimmed out with my boss standing beside me I started turning on breakers -- all breaker tripped as I energized them -- soon fire appearred out of my bosses ears ceating his eyes to bulge -- this was in a time which most electricians would drill large holes & run branch circuits together -- long story short - the mechanic installing the gas line drilled through one set of bundled wires saw he had done so the drilled through the second set. -- he installed his pipe never told anyone -- needless to say i was not killed that day -- point being there may be a mechanical problem you were never informed of which would be more likely close to the panels, search floors & ceilings for hot spots & unusual penetrations.

 

[DrSparks]

I'm even more certain you have a voltage drop situation now.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Scolaz

Something is very fishy here. I use Murray, Siemens and Homeline all the time. I have never seen a Siemens trip to the off position in my life. I have installed many a siemens AFCI in older homes and have had some calls. Everytime is see a trip the handle in in the middle never the off. Every time I diagnose the AFCI trips there has been everything from nails in the wires, Nuetral to ground issues, and Loose connections from Poor workmanship.

If not I think someone is playing games with you.

Regular breakers tripping to the off position - no load no connections. Yea right.

Sorry for the sarcasm it really seems odd.

 

[ATSman]

Or his head.

GOOD ONE! :lol:

 

[ATSman]

Avitar Crook

Avitar Crook

Yeah, that statement about tripping to the Off position has me thinking counterfeit too. There are no legitimate Siemens breakers that do that.

Some time after I left Siemens, they got hit with a HUGE wave of counterfeit QPs coming from China, including the AFCI versions. I was working with an OEM building assemblies for HVAC skids that had little 12 circuit sub panels on it and he told me he was offered 5,000 Siemens Q115 breakers for what worked out to be $1.22 each. I told him it was too good to be true, he bought them anyway. They were all fakes. We broke one open, there was no sensing mechanism inside at all, just a switch, a catch and a pawl. So there would have been no "Trip" position on those I suppose either!

One way to spot those by the way, they did not have the white paint in the numbers on the handle. The "15" was molded into the plastic, but it was all black; I guess wiping them with white paint adds 1 cent to their costs, and at $1.22 each, every cent counts.

Jraef,
It appears Dr Sparks stole your Avitar! LOL

 

[Jraef]

Jraef,
It appears Dr Sparks stole your Avitar! LOL

I saw that. Might be time for me to change... I'm not as evil as I once was.

 

[FionaZuppa]

nails or the like causing shorts would likely leave the circuit dead after resetting breaker?

was it the same exact crew who wired all 4 units? was it same exact crew who did the rest (mechanical, drywall, finish work) ??

was it same town/city person who did the inspections?