Enunciating circuit breaker for the fire bell? How do I know if this circuit has tripped?

[Sirfloatsalot1]

Does anyone make an enunciating circuit breaker? We (Habitat) use the ELOCK Circuit Lockout Kit on the dedicated fire bell circuit, which is great for preventing someone from accidentally turning off the circuit. But how would I know if the circuit actually tripped? Homeowners don't regularly check the panel for a red-flagged breaker or 'test' the fire bell.

I use 'screaming' GFCI receptacles so someone knows when a GFCI has tripped ('close to sink rim appliances', e.g., freezers/refrigerators, disposals and dishwashers). But you'd be surprised how many people don't notice the light is off inside the refer when the power is off - or keep pressing the disposal reset button because they watched YouTube. But with an enunciating breaker, we'd hear an alarm from the breaker panel and know something was wrong, even if the handle was 'still on”'. The visual indicator doesn't help me with this item, although it's a great tool. I've asked Square D to give this to their product development gurus - we'll see what happens.

Any other options from the gallery????

 

[ptonsparky]

Years past the Smokes would chirp when they were on battery power. Must not be the case anymore because my 10 year battery ones don't chirp until that battery gets low. Takes about a week. I don't know when that changed or if it's peculiar to my SDs.

Screaming GFCI receptacles don't work for me. Even if I am kneeling next to them.

 

[hillbilly1]

Square D has an indicating window on their QO and QOB series breakers, so unless it’s not one of those, I don’t know what Square D would do. Did they change the style of their locks? The only ones I have used on Square D’s panels does not cover the window.
Perhaps this a Homeline panel? (Which do not have the indicator)

 

[hillbilly1]

Re-read your post, your wanting a buzzer indicator. Yeah, don’t know anyone that makes that. Probably would need to be a separate apparatus. Would not be enough production value for breaker manufactures to redesign.

 

[480sparky]

A relay wired to the FA breaker and a buzzer wired to a different circuit.

 

[Todd0x1]

Im not familiar with code on this, but is the fire bell breaker allowed to supply anything besides the bell? One could use a RIB connected to the load side of the breaker to switch an annunciator.

EDIT: 480sparky beat me to it while I was typing

 

[hbiss]

Does anyone make an enunciating circuit breaker? We (Habitat) use the ELOCK Circuit Lockout Kit on the dedicated fire bell circuit, which is great for preventing someone from accidentally turning off the circuit. But how would I know if the circuit actually tripped? Homeowners don't regularly check the panel for a red-flagged breaker or 'test' the fire bell.

Is this a California thing? What do you mean by "fire bell" in a residential setting? I would think that, just like smokes, it should be on a circuit that also supplies lighting. You can bet when the lights in the bathroom don't work they will figure it out.

This is the reason that real fire bells are supervised.

-Hal

 

[jim dungar]

A breaker is supposed to be off when it has tripped, so an internal buzzer would need to be connected to bus ahead of the breaker contacts. I don't believe a GFCI receptacle with an alarm will buzz if the line side power is removed.

Most breaker are available with a set of auxiliary contacts to indicate when the breaker is on-off and some only when tripped (alarm contacts). You could wire this to a separate buzzer, but then you would need to monitor the 'power' to the buzzer to make sure it is still available.

But seriously, if this is a dedicated circuit for the fire alarm, why would it trip? I fear you are running down a rabbit hole..

 

[sameguy]

Pilot light

 

[hillbilly1]

I designed something similar for a hotel we wired, but it was a fan for radon abatement. They wanted an alarm at the front desk if it lost power or quit running.

 

[Todd0x1]

Is this a California thing?

California has mandated sprinklers on all residential now, so the bell in question is just hooked to a flow switch.

 

[ptonsparky]

California has mandated sprinklers on all residential now, so the bell in question is just hooked to a flow switch.

Do they have to be a separate circuit? Put it on the most monitored circuit of the house. Cable TV, Internet, Master bedroom.

 

[gadfly56]

A breaker is supposed to be off when it has tripped, so an internal buzzer would need to be connected to bus ahead of the breaker contacts. I don't believe a GFCI receptacle with an alarm will buzz if the line side power is removed.

Most breaker are available with a set of auxiliary contacts to indicate when the breaker is on-off and some only when tripped (alarm contacts). You could wire this to a separate buzzer, but then you would need to monitor the 'power' to the buzzer to make sure it is still available.

But seriously, if this is a dedicated circuit for the fire alarm, why would it trip? I fear you are running down a rabbit hole..

I've never seen this on a residential breaker.

 

[jim dungar]

I know Square D has them in the QO line but not in their HOM offer. I just looked in a CH catalog, from 1998, and saw they were offered on the Quicklag line.

I no longer keep track of residential products.

 

[Sirfloatsalot1]

California has mandated sprinklers on all residential now, so the bell in question is just hooked to a flow switch.

True, but what if the circuit is tripped? There would be no bell, so???

 

[Sirfloatsalot1]

I've never seen this on a residential breaker.

We've driven nails through cables, pipes, you name it. And the breakers have an indicating window - I just never look at them unless the power is off somewhere.

 

[Sirfloatsalot1]

Years past the Smokes would chirp when they were on battery power. Must not be the case anymore because my 10 year battery ones don't chirp until that battery gets low. Takes about a week. I don't know when that changed or if it's peculiar to my SDs.

Screaming GFCI receptacles don't work for me. Even if I am kneeling next to them.

The fire bell is hooked to the flow control valve of the sprinkler circuit - water flow would trigger the switch, but what if the circuit is dead???

 

[Todd0x1]

True, but what if the circuit is tripped? There would be no bell, so???

Stop with that kind of talk! Once they realize that the bells might not work supervised FACPs will be required.

 

[mlnk]

Check your liability policy. Some EC policies exclude coverage for running power to fire alarm.[which I think is crazy]. CEC requires separate circuit for fire alarm, run in metallic conduit to a metal box, but some AHJs allow NM cable .

 

[hbiss]

Are they still required to have smokes? If so, it sounds to me like it would be a good idea to just have the flow switch trigger the smokes via the interconnect wire instead of a bell. After all, all smokes are supposed to be interconnected because you may not be able to hear one go off, especially in a big house. So what good is a fire bell?

-Hal