Equipment grounding

[Jay2685]

Yellow all I have a question about grounding .the other day I ran wire to a 240v 3 phase 4 wire panel . And noticed that there was no grounding bar . Just the neutral bar . Should there not be a grounding bar for equipment grounding

 

[electrofelon]

Were there wire type egc's in that panel?. It's not unheard of to not have any wire egc's nor a ground bar if it's all metal conduit and the conduot system is the egc

 

[jumper]

Were there wire type egc's in that panel?. It's not unheard of to not have any wire egc's nor a ground bar if it's all metal conduit and the conduot system is the egc

Yep, works fine until someone runs say a piece of MC cable to the panel and instead of adding a ground bus sticks the EGC into the neutral bus. See that a lot.

 

[electrofelon]

Yep, works fine until someone runs say a piece of MC cable to the panel and instead of adding a ground bus sticks the EGC into the neutral bus. See that a lot.

Oh yeah.

 

[MAC702]

... 240v 3 phase 4 wire panel . And noticed that there was no grounding bar ...

So the incoming EGC was just landed to the enclosure?

But yeah, if all metallic conduit suitable for grounding, no wires would be needed...

 

[ActionDave]

Yellow all I have a question about grounding .the other day I ran wire to a 240v 3 phase 4 wire panel . And noticed that there was no grounding bar . Just the neutral bar . Should there not be a grounding bar for equipment grounding

I work in several old buildings that are all conduit and there are no green wires or equipment ground busses in the panels since everything is equipment grounded by the conduit.

 

[Little Bill]

Yep, works fine until someone runs say a piece of MC cable to the panel and instead of adding a ground bus sticks the EGC into the neutral bus. See that a lot.

Not a problem if the panel is the main service & the neutral is bonded to the can.

 

[Jay2685]

Were there wire type egc's in that panel?. It's not unheard of to not have any wire egc's nor a ground bar if it's all metal conduit and the conduot system is the egc

Yes the electrical sys is all metal conduit.

 

[romex jockey]

I'm interested in if 250.130(C)(4) would apply here>

(4) An equipment grounding conductor that is part of
another branch circuit that originates from the enclosure
where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch
circuit originates

I'm unsure if this is exclusively for extensions of , or new branch circuits originating from a older non-grounding OCPD enclosure

Perhaps I'm grasping code straws , but let's say one did pick up a EGC from another source

If it was make back to said enclosure , would it not have to serve the largest OCPD?

~RJ~

 

[infinity]

Yes the electrical sys is all metal conduit.

Metallic conduit and tubing is a listed EGC in 250.118 so no wire type EGC's are required. Back 30 years ago we never installed a wire type EGC in a solid metal raceway, it was considered a waste of money. It was common to see no green conductors or EGC bar in a panel.

 

[romex jockey]

crosspost.....

so , would installing a 'snap around' grounding bushing on said emt, and making it to a Gbar then be complaint to land any ecg's introduced?

~RJ~

 

[infinity]

crosspost.....

so , would installing a 'snap around' grounding bushing on said emt, and making it to a Gbar then be complaint to land any ecg's introduced?

~RJ~

The panel enclosure is already grounded by the metallic raceway so unless it over 250 volts to ground and there are concentric or eccentric KO's no bonding jumper is necessary. Just screw the ground bar to the enclosure.

 

[MAC702]

...Just screw the ground bar to the enclosure.

This.

 

[jumper]

Not a problem if the panel is the main service & the neutral is bonded to the can.

True. It was the downstream panels I was trying to refer to.

 

[Jay2685]

240 volt 3phase panel

240 volt 3phase panel

Thank you all for your reply. The system is metallic conduit
And not a service panel . And noticed that the nutreal bar is
Bonded to the panel ,which if I understand artical 200,250 is a no,no .

 

[jumper]

Thank you all for your reply. The system is metallic conduit
And not a service panel . And noticed that the nutreal bar is
Bonded to the panel ,which if I understand artical 200,250 is a no,no .

Yeah, that is a no no.

250.24 something. Too lazy to look up exact section.