estimating blunder?

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rodneee

Senior Member
6000 +/- sq ft 5 yr old house

we added:
186 recessed lights (of which 36 were in 2 story ceiling)
41 switches (mostly SP)
1 24 cir sub panel

on any given day we had staffed the job with no less than 2 persons working and no more than 6...
we were not responsible for the drywall repair so no time lost there...i think i must have missed the boat on time lost due to drop cloth and furniture moving procedures....my estimate was so far off it was embarrassing...any idea of how you estimate when furniture moving comes into play.

thanks for your insights
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
6000 +/- sq ft 5 yr old house

we added:
186 recessed lights (of which 36 were in 2 story ceiling)
41 switches (mostly SP)
1 24 cir sub panel

on any given day we had staffed the job with no less than 2 persons working and no more than 6...
we were not responsible for the drywall repair so no time lost there...i think i must have missed the boat on time lost due to drop cloth and furniture moving procedures....my estimate was so far off it was embarrassing...any idea of how you estimate when furniture moving comes into play.

thanks for your insights
I do not move furniture. It is left up to the owner to move their furniture and other items. I have seen Ho's try and come back weeks after the job and claim that so and so broke this or scratched that. I lay out where I will need to work and when the items need to be moved.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
I agree, I don't move furniture either and I don't patch and paint, I do electrical work.

I don't know what you charge an hour and I haven't bid a job in a long time so just taking a shot.

186 can lights cut in @ $150 each= $27,900
41 switches cut in @$25.00 each=$1,025
1 sub panel=$1,000

$29,925

Now that's the rates that I've heard around here, the swithces might be cheaper, but that's what we were getting back in the 80's.
 

svh19044

Senior Member
Location
Philly Suburbs
Sometimes we DO move furniture, and drop clothes/setup/cleanup are always a time consuming process. It really depends on the size of the job, so a lot of it is guessing, and it's easy to miss on the bid. It happens. :( The best way I've found to do is simply add 1-2 man hours daily to the bid, but again, it completely depends on the size and scope of the job.

That's $1000-2000 by the time your job would be over by my estimate.

When the floors are new and hardwood, we do NOT move furniture.

I agree, I don't move furniture either and I don't patch and paint, I do electrical work.

I don't know what you charge an hour and I haven't bid a job in a long time so just taking a shot.

186 can lights cut in @ $150 each= $27,900
41 switches cut in @$25.00 each=$1,025
1 sub panel=$1,000

$29,925

Now that's the rates that I've heard around here, the swithces might be cheaper, but that's what we were getting back in the 80's.
For around here...

36 were 2 stories up, so nearly double a standard can, and pricing would only go up from there depending on trims/can/size. Trims can get pricey, especially on jobs like these where a specular is spec'ed, and forgot those prices if LV.

Switches are very cheap on your end, even for standard sp's, add in dimmers and 3 ways though, and it goes up pretty drastically, subpanel is about right if it's directly next to the main.

I'd bid about $10k higher than you and be average for the area.
 
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rodneee

Senior Member
6000 +/- sq ft 5 yr old house

we added:
186 recessed lights (of which 36 were in 2 story ceiling)
41 switches (mostly SP)
1 24 cir sub panel

on any given day we had staffed the job with no less than 2 persons working and no more than 6...
we were not responsible for the drywall repair so no time lost there...i think i must have missed the boat on time lost due to drop cloth and furniture moving procedures....my estimate was so far off it was embarrassing...any idea of how you estimate when furniture moving comes into play.

thanks for your insights
thanks for the responses.
i failed to comunicate properly in my original post...the answer i was really after pertained time needed more than $...
i really wanted to know how many "man hours" you would estimate for such a job...(that's where i blew it)
 

rgiraldo

Member
Location
FL
You need to include your exclusions on your proposal and on the contract.

I say speak with the owner, who knows?

But if you don't cover your self then its just live and learn.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
thanks for the responses.
i failed to comunicate properly in my original post...the answer i was really after pertained time needed more than $...
i really wanted to know how many "man hours" you would estimate for such a job...(that's where i blew it)
I don't figure in the man hours, the hours are built into the price.
 

Joethemechanic

Senior Member
Location
Philly Pa burbs
I'm sorry but moving furniture or other things in the way is T&M and I'm not rushing to save them money and taking a risk in damaging something. If they are rich enough not to want to be bothered to move/cover things, then they are rich enough to pay for the man hours to move it.


Just the time it takes to stop and wash your hands every time you have to move something,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 

rodneee

Senior Member
Man hours, 275 - 300 is what I would guess as I am not near my computer.
your guess was better than mine...my GUESS (blind guess i should say) said it would be 250 +/- man hours...it took 387 (OOOOUUUUCH)...not that it would matter, but the same crew that did the original rough wire is still here so i let them do it...that combined with the fact we are still wiring the exact or a very similar unit several times a month must have led me to think the job would go smoother...

the good news is i have been a serial screw up since i blindly got into this business...this little blunder pales in comparision to my past ones but due to the weak economy this is starting to hurt... oh well live and learn...
 

rodneee

Senior Member
Man hours, 275 - 300 is what I would guess as I am not near my computer.
your guess was better than mine...my GUESS (blind guess i should say) said it would be 250 +/- man hours...it took 387 (OOOOUUUUCH)...not that it would matter, but the same crew that did the original rough wire is still here so i let them do it...that combined with the fact we are still wiring the exact or a very similar unit several times a month must have led me to think the job would go smoother...

the good news is i have been a serial screw up since i blindly got into this business...this little blunder pales in comparision to my past ones but due to the weak economy this is starting to hurt... oh well live and learn...
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
OK maybe I'm really out of touch or I used to work really fast, but at 387 man hours, average 4 men on the job, that job took 2 1/2 weeks by my calculations.

Well now that I think about it, if you could put in 10 lights a day by yourself that would be 18 days. Just seems like a lot of time to me, even with moving the furniture.

Reminds me of the time, my boss sent me and another guy out to hang a new chandalier in the dining room of this house. We get there and the lady wants to know where the rest of the crew is, I laughed and said ma'am the only reason there are two of us is because some of those fixtures can be heavy. She said well how are you going to move the glass table? I told her we would just slide it over and it would be fine. She told me that the table was solid glass and weighed about 600 lbs and it took six men and a special lift to get it into the house. I told her we would be back after she called those guys and had them move the table.:roll:
 
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