estimating question plus advice, labor,partner,commision or just walk away.

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troberts2007

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Trussville AL
Im am in a delima, Just starting my new company and after a referal by friend, I have been ask to give a quote a a large low voltage job. its a large existing apartment complex 25 buildings,20 units per building and they want 4 coaxe and 4 cat5e per unit. so its appoximatly 4000 cables all togather. if it was new construction and we had plans and planned pathways then this would be a no brainer and easy to estimate.but the buildings are 15-20 years old, we dont have plans, they want boxes mounted on the outside of each building and a conduit running up the side about 40 ft then all the cables ran to each unit from the attic to all three floors below. I do not know if the units on each floor match the units below and they want the cost to patch and paint any sheetrock that has to be cut included and they want it all done in 90 days start to finish.
I have just went out on my own and right now I am a one man show but I have some folks I use from time to time when I need help but to do this job correctly In the time frame required I think it would take atleast a 6 man crew working in pairs.
I see this job with lots of potential profits but a lot of risk.

My first question would be provided that all the walls line up and we can use flex bits to create a path from attic to first floor.i am estimating it will take 2 men 4 hours to cut in low voltage rings,drill holes between attics and floors below and pull the 3 drops. if walls dont line up them I am adding and addition 2 hours per drop and Plus the paint and patch. Does this sound like i am on the right path.
I am going to propose we do 1 building at the price I come up with just as a test case then adjust based on how that building comes out.

next question : since I dont currently have the man power I need would I be better off to
a. use local temp office for labor
B. Call some other electrical contractors try to find one whois slow and will give me a few good guys at a decent hourly rate.
c. offer other electrical contractor a chance to partner up on project and share the Risk
d. find another contractors who would like the whole project and ask for a finders fee/commision if they get the job
e. my least favorite. tell the cutomer I'm not able to do the project and just walk away.

Any advice you can lend an OLD Electrician/NEW EC would be appreciated.
 
troberts2007 said:
I have been ask to give a quote . apartment complex.
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Referal or not they will probably shop the job to 10-20 ECs looking for a rock bottom price. Price the job to where you are sure to make money, you don't stand much of a change of getting it that way but it's better to play it safe. Just an opinion.
 
So this job will keep you busy enough for 3 months that you'll have to turn down some smaller jobs, at the end of three months which would pay more money (net)?
 
Have you ever done large project like this as an installer? How about as a project manger? Installing a job is a different animal than managing a job.

It does not sound like that you have a trusting crew that will get the job done in a timely manner?

If you partner with another company and if something goes wrong with the job then it will be finger pointing time.

I know you said apartments, but are they apartments or individually owned units? If they are individually owned they you have to deal with HOA stuff.

If it was my project I would stay away from it.

You will probably have more profit and less headache (almost zero headache) doing small jobs than doing a large job in this in this magnitude.

I hate to be negative and a party pooper but you asked for opinion/advice.
 
a 6 man crew for 90 days is in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million dollars in labor alone if you use real electricians.

do you have that much money to front? chances are you won't get paid until it is over, but no one is going to agree to wait that long for their paycheck.

chances are you can get by with low voltage guys for a lot less. I would bet the other bidders are going to find the cheapest labor they can for bidding this kind of project.

I vote for option (e).

It is doubtful anyone will give you a referral fee, but you could give it a shot. But a job of this size is not something that every EC for 50 miles in every direction does not already know about.
 
I don't do residential work so I'm a bit out of my element but I see a lot of red flags. I don't mean to discourage you but as a small new EC this job could ruin you if it went wrong. You would need more manpower with proven skills to pull this job off. You would also need to price the job based on worst-case scenarios because there are too many unknown variables. Last but not least I am an opponent of using flex bits in a situation such as yours. They have the potential to cause a lot of damage when you don't know what is inside the walls. You can easily chew up existing wiring or plumbing with them.

My advice would be to walk away or pass the job off to someone else until your company has grown in size and experience.
 
troberts2007 said:
next question : since I dont currently have the man power I need would I be better off to
a. use local temp office for labor
B. Call some other electrical contractors try to find one whois slow and will give me a few good guys at a decent hourly rate.
c. offer other electrical contractor a chance to partner up on project and share the Risk
d. find another contractors who would like the whole project and ask for a finders fee/commision if they get the job
e. my least favorite. tell the cutomer I'm not able to do the project and just walk away.

Any advice you can lend an OLD Electrician/NEW EC would be appreciated.
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a: That is recipe for disaster. Temp/Day Labor would be OK for digging a trench-laying conduit. For fishing in finished apartments No Way
b:
c: If one of these three works out Great
d:
e: Hold your Head High & state that your are not equipped with manpower for this job but would appreciate consideration on future jobs.
 
Doesn't sound like a job you want if you are by yourself and just starting. Did you friend say "Hey my buddy's an electrician and he just started a business?" Property managers, rehabbers, condo associations are usually always looking for the cheapest price. And it sounds like a really difficult job and as you said very hard to give a quote on.
 
NO BID the JOB. Option E.

1. Don't plan on an entire crew of Temp Labor.
2. It would take 8-10 guys to get it done in 90 days. Weekly payroll of $10,000.
3. Do you have $100,000 in cash or credit line? That's what it would take to finance the job, assuming NET30 terms, no deposit.

My bid would be around $800,000.

They will not be offended if you No-bid the job.
 
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thanks

thanks

Thanks guys, I did choose to just walk away. let the Company know I just didn't have the man power or the resources to handle the project at this time but to keep me in mind for future project's.
i think i knew i needed to do that all along. I previously worked for a larger electrical contractor and later a bank where i managed several large scale projects and its just hard to admit I dont have those resources anymore but I will get there eventually i hope.
TR
 
troberts2007 said:
Thanks guys, I did choose to just walk away. let the Company know I just didn't have the man power or the resources to handle the project at this time but to keep me in mind for future project's.
i think i knew i needed to do that all along. I previously worked for a larger electrical contractor and later a bank where i managed several large scale projects and its just hard to admit I dont have those resources anymore but I will get there eventually i hope.
TR
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I suspect you made a wise decision that will bring greater sucess in the long run.
 
troberts2007 said:
Thanks guys, I did choose to just walk away. let the Company know I just didn't have the man power or the resources to handle the project at this time but to keep me in mind for future project's.
i think i knew i needed to do that all along. I previously worked for a larger electrical contractor and later a bank where i managed several large scale projects and its just hard to admit I dont have those resources anymore but I will get there eventually i hope.
TR
Click to expand...

good shot. you could have put together a number, and turned it in,
and prayed you didn't get the job.

this thing will get shopped to every high and low voltage contractor
in range. the only way you would get it is if you underbid the guy
who will go broke doing the job.

if you are brand new starting out, might i suggest this:

http://www.barebonesbiz.com/

she has a weekend buisness plan builder, and it'll cost $20 to do it,
and is probably the best single thing you could do for yourself at this point.

good luck....
 
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