estimating romex

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-=PEAKABOO=-

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Fort Worth, Texas
I have searched and read but did not find what I was looking for.
I have national electrical estimator and I am trying to find a way to estimate plug assemblies in custom homes. I know lengths will vary but surely someone has a better way of doing it then square foot pricing. I have done numerous houses for this builder and am pretty sure on him using us but I have been giving the work away in the past do to not knowing how to bid.
These house range in the 6000' range. I have one coming up that is close to 10000' square foot as well.
Just trying to see if there is a way to either customize national electrical estimator to do plug and switch assemblies and be close.
I am new to the software and am using it with quickbooks pro.
I have been in business for 9 years and been broke since day one, I know this has been because I have been to nice and too naive about estimating and billing.
Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Steve
 
Order a RS Means book and cd or another companys. They'll get you close. Then you can fine tune your estimates based on your style and the time it takes to do it.
 
I pretty much do the same as Marc does.

Some estimating progams have a "pen" that you "roll" across the path the wire wil take to get a length. I think Mcormick or Accubid had this "pen".

As far as TNE and assemblies....I have given up.
I am about 90% done with an Excel spreadsheet I made using various cost (unit price/labor units) from TNE and HD WS CD. Most "common" items are included in the "assemblies", but the item list has plenty of items that I did NOT include in the "assemblies" (for a rainy day?).
Updating pricing IS a bit of a PITA ...my TNE has been outdated for at least 2 years and HD WS CD does not have every item we use. The "solution" is manual updating of about a dozen items from a web-based version of TNE ( http://www.get-a-quote.net/default.htm )
If I had to update ALL the pricing from get-a-quote, I'd need therapy.
 
I also use National Electrical Estimator with excel. My NEE updates every time I use it and the program costs 10 times less than some pay just for tech support. I wouldn't use it for a large project.

I have one worksheet in excel that is just prices. That worksheet links to another where I have assemblies.

Per receptacle I have a list:
box
recept
greenie
cover
labor

I count how many recepts I have, excel does the math.

Items include - dryer,washer,ext gfi,smoke,co,int gfi, welder,water pump,boiler,fix, ext fix, and so on.

I enter amounts of wire (6-3,10-3,12-3,12-2,bell,stat,ctv,cat 5 and so on based mostly on guess and a little on experience.

Service, panels, and misc are added in. Now I even add for fuel.

That's for residences, for commercial I do a total take off.

sorry if this sounds overwelming - it's not
 
Here is part of one of the worksheets in my spreadsheet to give you an idea:
assembliescb6.jpg


Excel is a very powerful progam...if you take the time to learn it. It can do a lot more than just crunch numbers. I keep a database of my customers in Excel, merged to my contract in Word....click one button, all the info from Excel (name, address, block, lot, etc) gets filled in automatically in Word.

Amazon has lots of "Excel for Dummies" titles, most are under $20 and have free shipping.

"Video Professor" offers "free online" courses (1st chapter ONLY) ...and a crazy "99 hours for 0.99?" offer.
 
Celtic,


I recognize different numbers (those that reflect actual time) from various sources in your work sheets. They appear to be based on actual times to do the events. Are your wire units based out of the original Mike Holt hour catalog, or did you derive these hours of romex less than ceiling (bore holes through studs) height, and that that can be ran in conjunction with other home runs, making a TEE number seem close for the ceiling time?

Curious, as I too wonder how some of the numbers actually were derived out of TEE, Mike Holt, Conest, and some other programs out there offered in the market, that can have quite a range on the time per unit assigned to function. Mike's numbers are raw, without any fluff, based on good conditions. Some of the programs seem to have a certain amount of fluff features built to cover "missed items" that weren't on project that day, and have a certain amount of "waunder time" to go back and do the "saves" I think we all pretty much see the projects through the same eyes, it's difficult to know at times when to apply the different multiplyers for various "easy shots" vs wow that's going to be an "ugly one", or worse...the "I forgot" money lo$t &pot. Looks like you have a pretty good read.
 
Rocky,
those numbers are straight from TNE....if TNE didn't have a labor unit, I went with HD WS CD...if both had no labor unit, I "made" one up (based on experience).

My numbers are based on:
..... NM cable installed in buildings under the conditions described on pages 5 and 6. Costs listed are for each 1,000 linear feet installed. The crew is one electrician working at a labor cost of $xx.xx per manhour. These costs include circuit make-up, reel set-up, phase identification, circuit testing, stripping, boring wood studs, layout, material handling, and normal waste. Add for supports, staples, connectors, sales tax, delivery, supervision, mobilization, demobilization, cleanup, overhead and profit. Note: The NEC places limits on how flexible cords and NM cable can be used. Non-metallic (NM) cable is limited to residences. Never install flexible cord or non-metallic cable in conduit."
Click to expand...
conditions = "good" ...not over 12' in height, clear floors, etc

costs include = ALL my costs include drilling/punching wood/steel studs.
I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not about to start counting beams/studs that do/do not get penetrated. Some guys do and that's fine for them, I don't and that's fine for me.

Add for = As detailed. I will also add for PITA factor, higher ceilings, etc.... as a percentage.

Never install non-metallic cable in conduit. = That's just funny :D


******
I have never seen Mike's estimating books/programs....but I am considering buying it.
I had tried some other programs years ago...but it didn't seem to work out for me ~ maybe I didn't have the patience? Who knows. I started using TNE in '96 (maybe '94? I have a '96 CD on my shelves still..others were probably ditching during moves).


****

IMO....without some sort of estimating program, you (any EC) are just throwing darts while blindfolded....sometimes you don't even hit the board. An estimating program just takes the blindfold off....you're still tossing darts, but at least you have an idea where the dartboard is.
 
-=PEAKABOO=-

You're doing some pretty big homes. If your assembly's material costs and/or labor units are not correct, your profit margins at the end of the job might be rather dismal.

I can't stress enough how important it is to use a quality estimating program that allows you to get really precise on your assemblies. Guesstimating is not the way to go if you are serious about making as much money as you can. The philosophy of "You win some, you lose some" no longer works in our ultra competitive market. If you're up against contractors that use good estimating programs to determine their costs, they are going to be consistent in their pricing. If you do win a job over them, you need to be sure that you didn't win the job because you under estimated your costs. I have a belief that you shouldn't do a project if you don't know your exact costs and are confident that you are going to make a good profit.

I'm not familiar with the National Electrical Estimator so I can't offer any advice on how to adjust the assemblies. However, I do know that there are quality estimating programs out there that do give you greater control in determining your costs. Some of them have free trial periods so you can check them out without having to make a monetary commitment.

I know it hurts to spend money but an estimating program is no different from your job site tools. Spend the money on quality tools and you'll come out on top.

I personally use an estimating program called TurboBid. It's relatively inexpensive ($299) and they offer a 30 day trial.

I'm sure that you can achieve the wealth and prosperity that you are seeking. It's not always a matter of working harder. Sometimes we need to re-evaluate how we do things and see if there might be a better way.

Good luck!
 
IllinoisContractor said:
-=PEAKABOO=-

You're doing some pretty big homes. If your assembly's material costs and/or labor units are not correct, your profit margins at the end of the job might be rather dismal.

I can't stress enough how important it is to use a quality estimating program that allows you to get really precise on your assemblies. Guesstimating is not the way to go if you are serious about making as much money as you can. The philosophy of "You win some, you lose some" no longer works in our ultra competitive market. If you're up against contractors that use good estimating programs to determine their costs, they are going to be consistent in their pricing. If you do win a job over them, you need to be sure that you didn't win the job because you under estimated your costs. I have a belief that you shouldn't do a project if you don't know your exact costs and are confident that you are going to make a good profit.

I'm not familiar with the National Electrical Estimator so I can't offer any advice on how to adjust the assemblies. However, I do know that there are quality estimating programs out there that do give you greater control in determining your costs. Some of them have free trial periods so you can check them out without having to make a monetary commitment.

I know it hurts to spend money but an estimating program is no different from your job site tools. Spend the money on quality tools and you'll come out on top.

I personally use an estimating program called TurboBid. It's relatively inexpensive ($299) and they offer a 30 day trial.

I'm sure that you can achieve the wealth and prosperity that you are seeking. It's not always a matter of working harder. Sometimes we need to re-evaluate how we do things and see if there might be a better way.

Good luck![/QUOTE

Thanks for the heads up.
Through the years I have been poking along with very little contact with other electrical contractors. I have always assumed that I would be better off going back to working for someone. Lately (partly thanks to this forum) I have be re-thinking the way I have been running my company.
Like I said before I am more an electrician than a businessman but I am going to change this. My family 3 uncles, a cousin and my father are all electricians and 4 of which are electrical contractors. Most of them have done it for years and I do not think that any of them ever got rich.
Click to expand...
 
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