Ethernet Switches in a Factory Environment

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jtauser

jtauser

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St. Louis, MO
I've been working in the manufacturing environment for all of my professional career, and have gotten used to the ways of conduit, raceway, enclosures and the like for the protection of electrical equipment in a place where accidents can and do happen.

One of my customers has recently added a production control system to the floor via their IT department and their voice and data contractor. They have run data lines across the ceiling securing them in a way that is compliant with section 800, but they drop them down and plug them into office grade Ethernet switches tie-wrapped to conduit or machine frames and then plug terminals and printers into them.

This is all in the open, and it's a dusty place. It wasn't my problem until they wanted to start gathering data from my PLC's. I am now very uncomfortable that I am in the loop on this type of installation and the success of my project may be hampered by intermittent or inadvertently disconnected connections.

My recommendation that the switches be enclosed and cables run through glands has been met with "That's too pricey, and the switches will burn up if we put them in a box". Yes, I know about industrial-grade switches. Once again, "too pricey".

I have looked through section 800 and don't see anything about the actual terminations or much on ethernet installations. Is there anything concrete in the Code I can fall back on? My type-A personality doesn't want to back off, but unless I can come up with a compelling reason to change things I'll have to.

BTW, the IT department is 2000 miles away. We can't just drag their butt out to the floor when we have a problem.

Thanks for your input.
 
Maybe they will figure out that replacing switches due to being filled with debris and overheating several times will cost more in the long run and finally decide to put them in an enclosure. I used to work for a company that designed and built control systems. I know you can get a cabinet large enough for switches and mount an air conditioner on them to eliminate overheating.
If your system fails because of the interface to the IT equipment, you can just point a finger at the IT department and tell them the problem is on their end.
If they are paying the bills, are confident the equipment they have paid for will do the job, and the installation meets code, it's not your problem. Just make sure your system works fine without being connected to theirs.
 
The best you can do in these situations is to go on record stating that you don't like it, then do it the way they wanted to anyhow. When problems arise, try to find a more diplomatic way to say "I told you so". ;)
 
I know U said 800, U also said PLC's, why not 725, 720 ?
Of course I agree with the others too ...
 
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We've got many switches in our plant. Each one in a 6x6x6 nema 12 enc with a 2x4 recep inside it as well. Its extremely hot throughout the years and haven't had any problems. I don't what your IT department is talking about. Good Luck.
 
This is typical of what you can expect from IT "professionals". They have no conception of what the world is beyond their keyboards and monitors. Most wouldn't know which end of a screwdriver to hold. Here's another look at their work-
wires.jpg



-Hal
 
hbiss said:
This is typical of what you can expect from IT "professionals". They have no conception of what the world is beyond their keyboards and monitors. Most wouldn't know which end of a screwdriver to hold. Here's another look at their work-
wires.jpg



-Hal
Click to expand...
looks like the last panel i changed out , maybe the same guy did it :roll:
 
I used to be real nervous about the kind of installations you describe. After many years and seeing this kind of installation in many, many plants, I have come to the conclusion that while it does not look all that great, it works pretty well. The worst problems I have run across with these setups is that sometimes people unplug the wall warts to plug in something else like a coffee pot or a drill. Tie wrap the wall wart so it can't be easily unplugged and move on to things that really are a problem.
 
hbiss said:
This is typical of what you can expect from IT "professionals". They have no conception of what the world is beyond their keyboards and monitors. Most wouldn't know which end of a screwdriver to hold.
Click to expand...

Uh, some of us might take a wee bit of exception to that. I know a fair number of "IT professionals" that are quite capable of doing CO-quality wiring, and would never tolerate a mess like that. I know I wouldn't; I'd take a Garden Weazel to it :grin:. These people also know which end of a soldering iron to hold and can tell the difference between Phillips and Reed-Prince screws at a glance. (I somehow doubt that the average journeyman has ever seen a RP screw.)

There are people out there that do such hack work, but they are NOT professionals, IT or otherwise.
 
I do a bit of industrial automation and have been to some seminars. The big difference between office type switches and industrial switches is the mean time between failure. Go with a well know industrial brand, such as Hirshmann or Phoenix. There are a number of good enviromental jacks and plugs such as Leviton or Hubble. If you are making a connection into a panel you have to maintain the protection rating of the panel, such as NEMA 4 or 4X
 
Thanks to everyone for your weigh-in. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something in the NEC.

There is peace in acceptance. I like the rack picture, especially the "DO NOT TOUCH" sign.

zbang said:
There are people out there that do such hack work, but they are NOT professionals, IT or otherwise.
Click to expand...

This is dead on. What bugs me is that they exist and charge a lot of money for pontificating and hacking.

Joe T.
 
jtauser said:
There is peace in acceptance.
Click to expand...

Yes, I learned that dealing with some neighbor issues. :smile:

I could stress and be miserable or just accept the situation and move on.


What bugs me is that they exist and charge a lot of money for pontificating and hacking.
Click to expand...

They do not bother me at all, buyer beware. The hacks just make those of us who care more valuable.
 
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