ethics question

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My two cents. You took it upon yourself to investigate this guy to see if he was BSing about renewing his liscence that tells me you did it with intent. I know you stated you already know what you are going to do and I believe I know exactly what you are going to do based on your actions. You could have simply left it alone when he made that comment and kept on thinking it was BS. I'm with you on your decision. Yes maybe he has payed the price but maybe he didn't you nor I know that. If he is straight for a year in some states he will be allowed to renew. What would be one more year until then he will work in the trade as you stated but be someone elses responsibility. We all have to follow the rules.
 
Quote: "2 counts B&E, possession of burglary tools, eluding law enforcement and 15 counts of bad checks."
Why this sounds like any typical electrical contractor.
:grin:
Let me elaborate:
Breaking & Entering-- What else ya gonna do when the guy with the key is hung over and doesn't show up? Break in and start working.
Possesion of burglary tools-- Every well equiped electrician will have a full assortment of "burglary" tools. Cordless SawzAll, hand grinder, alarm wire cutting dykes, bolt cutters, keys to all sorts of rental equipment, etc.
Eluding law enforcement-- Another way of saying that that cops were too incompetent to catch him.
15 counts of bad checks-- He deposits the check on Thursday, he pays his 15 workers on Friday, they zip off at noon to cash their checks at his bank at noon. The bank nails up. They won't credit his account for 3 business days.
I'll put it this way:
I had a roommate named Chris E. Before I knew him he was selling dope, got in a chase, lost and went to jail for a year. This sobered him up and he decided to go straight. He got out, went to AA, got a job, gave up dope, eventually gave up drinking, eventually gave up even cigarettes. :smile:
On the other hand...
There are those for whom jail is just a temporary interruption in their devient lifestyle. This is what the three strikes laws are designed for.:mad: Just get them out of society. Not to punish but to neutralize.
So it is CEB58 [the Original Poster] who actually knows the man. Can he be trusted? Did he change his ways? Has he learned his lesson? The law, like the Code, is full of hard line directives but that is just politician's jive. [One of the fundemental rules of Politician 101 is "to be tough on crime"] That's why we have juries and jury nullification.
~Peter
 
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I vote leave it alone, if the state that collects ridiculous amounts of money in licensing fees can't do a simple criminal backround check before renewing/approving licenses then that is their problem.

If anything try and persuade the board to do they're job. Who knows how many pedophiles etc... they are issuing cards to if they can't even catch this.
 
I'm a firm believer in the "tie him up and throw him in the drink, and if he sinks to the bottom and drowns he was innocent" camp. kill him before he gets the chance to strike again.
 
To toss in another opinion-
I've been known to exceed the speed limit on some roads and even have a ticket to show for my trouble. I've even, gasp, installed things against Code (which I removed in a couple of days, but still..). I'm also not a law enforcement officer. Yes, I'll report a crime that I see, but don't take down license plate numbers of the idiots that pass me on the freeway.

I doubt that anyone here is completely 'clean'. It's prectically impossible. In this case, I'd probably tell the guy "Hey, I thought I heard you say something about renewing your license. I really don't want to hear about this, since I -think- the board would have a problem with your jail time. If they ask me, I don't want to know about it." After that, it's between him, the board, and whatever dieties are involved.

Now, if he came up and waived the paper in my face and bragged about renewing without telling the board about the jail time, that would be an entirely different matter.

Comes down to- you/I don't know what he actually did and probably can't find out. If he's competent, license or no license he's still miles ahead of the guys that feed our "spot the violations" habit :D.
 
Ceb,

Maybe he knows someone on the board and they pushed it through for him,

that's just basic politics, but if you are lucky maybe you can get that guy

fired too!!

Ceb, do you know anyone else that is doing something unlawfull in your area,

yet you have failed to drop a dime on them ??? If that is so, then why are

you being so selective in your quest?? The latest word is 1 out of 40 males

in this country will spent some time in jail or prison, so you betta get going

because there is a ton of work out there. I say MYOB.
 
ceb58 said:
As some here know along with contracting part time I also work for the prison system. About 9 mo ago I was assigned a minimum custody inmate to assist me which is common place. This guy was/is a very good electrician. He can run the gambit of electrical work from changing ballast to running pipe, setting switch gear to trouble shooting motors. This is not talk I have seen him in action. several weeks ago he slipped and told me he renewed his electrical lisence. I thought it was BS. Last week he transferred to a location nearer his home county. He left some electrical trade magazines in my work truck that he had sent to him in prison. The label had his name on it as owner of *** electrical. So I looked him up on the state contractor board web site and sure enough he renewed his lisence and is listed as active. Now by state law he must report any criminal convictions for the boards review and I am sure the board would not let him still hold his license while he is in prison. He is due to get out in Dec. and start back in the trade. Would you file a complaint with the board or let it slide? I know what I am going to do.
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Any possibility that he had time to inform the "board" and he was approved by a waiver process?
Im sure most people would not want to screw up their probation that quick.
 
Don't you need to list an address on an application?

John Doe
Cell Block 4
State Correctional Facility

That probably would have been a dead give away that he is a convicted felon.
 
I can not work with service magic because of a 20+ year old pot possesion charge. I think he is trying to..."write another bad check"...by deception.
But there is some truth to the "paid his debt..." I guess I would confront him with my oppin. see what his view is on "whats right" and make decisions based on that....it seems fair that way.
 
Our state has a vo tech system that teaches trades. An HVAC contractor that I know learned the A/C trade while in the pen. He went from apprentice to contractor and they even provided transportation to the test site. He became a trustee, and even had tools. I was a "religious volunteer" for six years at the facility that he was at. He has been out 3 years, has a small business now with 4 employees, and is doing well.

He was in for 10 years for larceny and concealing stolen property.
 
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It might not be a problem with bad checks, or even something like drunk driving, hit & run or something unrelated to the industry. IMO it's a slam-dunk to report for B&E. This guy shouldn't be working in people's homes.
 
IMO, this person should be reported to the Board. Not so they can discipline him, but more so that they can evaluate him. If he is truly reformed, then surely he can withstand some close monitering from an electrical board. Have you seen the latest Newletter published by the NC State Board of Electrical Contractors? It list all of the recent disciplinary actions taken by the board, and there are a few starting on page 25 dealing with crimminal convictions. A couple had their license placed on probation, which gives the Board time to closely moniter their character. Now, if he checked "no" to the question on the renewal application concerning a conviction, then that's a different story.
 
ceb58 said:
As some here know along with contracting part time I also work for the prison system. About 9 mo ago I was assigned a minimum custody inmate to assist me which is common place. This guy was/is a very good electrician. He can run the gambit of electrical work from changing ballast to running pipe, setting switch gear to trouble shooting motors. This is not talk I have seen him in action. several weeks ago he slipped and told me he renewed his electrical lisence. I thought it was BS. Last week he transferred to a location nearer his home county. He left some electrical trade magazines in my work truck that he had sent to him in prison. The label had his name on it as owner of *** electrical. So I looked him up on the state contractor board web site and sure enough he renewed his lisence and is listed as active. Now by state law he must report any criminal convictions for the boards review and I am sure the board would not let him still hold his license while he is in prison. He is due to get out in Dec. and start back in the trade. Would you file a complaint with the board or let it slide? I know what I am going to do.
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We elect our lawmakers and fire them if we don't like the laws they make.

He paid his dues as far as the Judicial System goes.

He did NOT pay his dues as far as the licensing board goes, matter of fact he tries to circumvent the rules and at the same time he tries to use the license they issue to him. To the homeowner or client or owner the license represent an individual who had been certified to have technical competence AND clear civic record. They guy continues to break the law. You are aware of this activity and it is your duty to report it. Otherwise the credibility of YOUR license will also suffer as a whole.

If he is now a straightup guy, he would have known better. Alas not....

I really don't understand the nase for any approach that is contrary to the above.
 
I think that wirebender's answer sums up my feelings.

If this guy _lied_ to get his licence renewal, then the Board should be informed.

If the guy told the board exactly what was up, and they renewed the licence, then my feelings are 'he paid his debt and is following the rules'.

We do not _know_ if the guy lied on his application. Right now we are assuming.

Depending upon _your_ gut feelings about this guy, you might ask him what he told the board, or go to them directly.

IMHO an _ex_ convict who is currently following the rules deserves a reasonable chance to stay on the right track.

-Jon
 
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I don?t often agree with Laszlo, so I should acknowledge the times that it does happen. :wink: As I was reading this thread, and thinking up my response, I noted that he said essentially the same thing I planned to say.

Your acquaintance will not have ?paid his debt to society,? until society itself has declared the debt to have been paid. I cannot know, on the basis of the information given, whether or not that will have been completed when he gets out of prison. I do not know whether ?breaking and entering? is a felony, nor whether writing bad checks is just cause for denial of a professional license. The licensing board has the authority to grant or to revoke licenses. So it is their decision as to whether his license renewal was obtained in accordance with all legal requirements.

My opinion is that you owe this person nothing, but that you owe society an opportunity to judge for itself as to whether the person has paid his debt. In your position, I would notify the board of what I had learned, and let them take whatever action they are required, by law, to take. It may turn out that no action is required. But that is their call, not yours.
 
charlie b said:
I don?t often agree with Laszlo, so I should acknowledge the times that it does happen. :wink: As I was reading this thread, and thinking up my response, I noted that he said essentially the same thing I planned to say.
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Charile,

How could you NOT agree with me when your avatar is the maskot of my children's school, St. Edward's?!:rolleyes:

As a PE you have certain obligations that I am not bound by. Ethics is not one of those.

You have nicely segregated the known and unknnown - but assumed - factors of the case that I was amiss. You also highlighted our obligation to society.
 
I would just say be careful. I have known some people who would not respond well to being turned in like this. Personally I would turn him in but I would be ready to protect myself and my family. If this sounds weird I had a coworker kill another coworker last year. Not the same situation but I guess when dealing with convicts and thugs BE CAREFUL!!!!!!
 
So far this thread has created a good discussion and I respect everyone's opinion. The fact remains that this guy had his CEU's before coming to prison this is how he was able to renew his license while in prison. He would have had to lie on the renewal form stating he had not been convicted of a felony. This guy is scheduled to get out some time in December. I am sure the board would not have renewed his license but maybe held them in non active status until he could appear before the board for a hearing.
As some have stated for those of us who do hold a license we are held to a higher standard of conduct. That is what the customer expects and desereves.
 
I can't believe what I am reading. Is it not possible that he legally renewed his licence? That somehow he filed the right paperwork and disclosed his incarceration and everything is on the up and up?
 
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