Ethics
- Thread starter physis
- Start date
- Status
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Re: Ethics
Depends, I assume I would be involved with the project. If by "required" you mean that by code the service must be upgraded and the GC refuses, make it clear in your permit and to the AHJ specifically what work you are doing and that they refuse to do the service.
-Hal
Depends, I assume I would be involved with the project. If by "required" you mean that by code the service must be upgraded and the GC refuses, make it clear in your permit and to the AHJ specifically what work you are doing and that they refuse to do the service.
-Hal
Re: Ethics
I don't think I could be a part of the remodel.
How is the HO going to respond when none of the outlets work?
I would keep it real simple for the GC to understand:
The panel has 12 slots in it, we now need 25. No body makes a "triple" CB.
Adding the additional CBs also requires more juice from the utili.co. - we have to up the service.
I can not, and will not, deliver an incomplete project to a customer. If you want to, that's fine - get another EC. I take pride in my installations, if are just interested in cutting corners to make up for an error in your bid I cannot help you.
***
This project has disaster written all over it.
I don't think I could be a part of the remodel.
How is the HO going to respond when none of the outlets work?
I would keep it real simple for the GC to understand:
The panel has 12 slots in it, we now need 25. No body makes a "triple" CB.
Adding the additional CBs also requires more juice from the utili.co. - we have to up the service.
I can not, and will not, deliver an incomplete project to a customer. If you want to, that's fine - get another EC. I take pride in my installations, if are just interested in cutting corners to make up for an error in your bid I cannot help you.
***
This project has disaster written all over it.
physis
Senior Member
Re: Ethics
I'm strongly considering declining.
It's going to violate 220.
When the main breakers start popping you know it's going to be the behind that belongs to whoever does this.
I'm strongly considering declining.
It's going to violate 220.
When the main breakers start popping you know it's going to be the behind that belongs to whoever does this.
No, it has "unscrupulous contractor" written all over it. And I know his prices too. Shameful.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Ethics
I'm curious, Sam. Just how much, in percent, is the calculated load over the service capacity? . . .I'm not fishing for details (unless this is a 30 Amp 120 Volt service which my jurisdiction defines as overloaded).
I'm curious, Sam. Just how much, in percent, is the calculated load over the service capacity? . . .I'm not fishing for details (unless this is a 30 Amp 120 Volt service which my jurisdiction defines as overloaded).
davedottcom
Senior Member
Re: Ethics
[ April 26, 2005, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: davedottcom ]
[ April 26, 2005, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: davedottcom ]
physis
Senior Member
Re: Ethics
This has been on the table from the beginning. Any competent electrical professional would see it. It's not a matter of confrontation. It's a matter of math, facts and code.
It's close Al. I don't have all the equipment specs and it's already over. No matter how you slice it.
This has been on the table from the beginning. Any competent electrical professional would see it. It's not a matter of confrontation. It's a matter of math, facts and code.
It's close Al. I don't have all the equipment specs and it's already over. No matter how you slice it.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Ethics
We ahd a builder want to get a bid on a addition and a total rewire but only wanted to pull a service upgrade permit,
We ahd a builder want to get a bid on a addition and a total rewire but only wanted to pull a service upgrade permit,
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Ethics
Boy,
When it's close. . .I start looking at life style, number of occupants, the owner value attached to the watt-hogs. Sometimes, all that is necessary is to switch one range to gas.
Boy,
When it's close. . .I start looking at life style, number of occupants, the owner value attached to the watt-hogs. Sometimes, all that is necessary is to switch one range to gas.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Ethics
I can fill my Mercury's trunk with gravel, but it won't make the vehicle into a hauling truck, and it sure won't be safe on the highway. . .
It's real hard to watch people take good, clear information and then do stupid things inspite of it.
And then there is the case where my explaining, how the service can't handle the load connected to it, results in the (prospective) client becoming enraged at me for manipulating them.
[ April 27, 2005, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]
I can fill my Mercury's trunk with gravel, but it won't make the vehicle into a hauling truck, and it sure won't be safe on the highway. . .
It's real hard to watch people take good, clear information and then do stupid things inspite of it.
And then there is the case where my explaining, how the service can't handle the load connected to it, results in the (prospective) client becoming enraged at me for manipulating them.
[ April 27, 2005, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]
lady sparks lover
Senior Member
Re: Ethics
Don't do it, because the GC will find a way to blame you if it fries the wires or keeps tripping, and the HO will find a way to blame you. They'll come back with a lawsuit. You can always say, it wasn't advised to me, but I don't think I would. I would just do the right thing and either make it clear to the HO or not take the job!!
I had that happen, I requested 2 transformers on a drawing, and the electrical contractor decided that they would use one (trying to save money and figure it would work with one), but fed both loads from one, and the transformer blew up and caused a fire. Well needless to say, they were fired, and probably will never work again.
If it needs a new service, give it to them...what's the cost of safety? Priceless!
Don't do it, because the GC will find a way to blame you if it fries the wires or keeps tripping, and the HO will find a way to blame you. They'll come back with a lawsuit. You can always say, it wasn't advised to me, but I don't think I would. I would just do the right thing and either make it clear to the HO or not take the job!!
I had that happen, I requested 2 transformers on a drawing, and the electrical contractor decided that they would use one (trying to save money and figure it would work with one), but fed both loads from one, and the transformer blew up and caused a fire. Well needless to say, they were fired, and probably will never work again.
If it needs a new service, give it to them...what's the cost of safety? Priceless!
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Ethics
besides, do you really want to have your good name associated with something likely to generate some bad publicity down the road?
It's not worth it.
The best answer is to not bid on the job. There are plenty of jobs to bid on where you have less chance of ending up in an expensive court battle a few years down the road.
besides, do you really want to have your good name associated with something likely to generate some bad publicity down the road?
It's not worth it.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Ethics
Quiete non movere, my friend.
He'll get his comeupins without your help. Lots of drama down that path, IMO.
Quiete non movere, my friend.
He'll get his comeupins without your help. Lots of drama down that path, IMO.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Ethics
I want mine.
- Status