- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
I actually talked to your end user about 3 days ago, he had called a contractor friend of mine who decided from the description that he wasn't the right guy for this either and told him to call me because I used to have a panel shop where I did conversions of European equipment all the time. I don't do field work any more so I was trying to talk him through describing what he had, but he was not very technical and I was waiting for him to send me photos and data sheets, after which I was going to try to help him find another contractor. He unfortunately got burned by at least 3 other "electricians" before you that I'm aware of (not sure if some of them were legitimate or "handymen" types), one of which sold him this transformer and hooked it up, which didn't work. He has had this thing for 2 years with it not working through all of this, he then sold his older working unit to someone else assuming this one was going to work, but now that it doesn't, he's panicking (and the guy who bought his old one won't sell it back to him). So I'm glad (for his sake) that he took one more chance on bringing in a pro, this really needed eyes on it in the field.
The motors he has are all rated 50/60Hz (from what he told me) which is a good thing. The main motor for the roller is powered by a VFD, also a good thing. So really, the ONLY major problem here is that he has the wrong transformer for a control system that is using the Neutral of a 400Y230V expected system (common outside of North America) for his control power and for the blower. So what I would suggest is what Adrian Wint suggested earlier, because he ALREADY OWNS that 400V transformer now and the thing was custom made, so he can't return it. So as Adrian suggested, just go get a control power transformer that will give you 230V on the output with enough capacity to run that blower, the controls, and the solenoid valve at the end of the schematic. I would go for 1500VA, that gives you some overhead for starting that blower. You COULD try to find one that steps down from the 400V you have now, and that simplifies it from the standpoint of everything coming from behind that one main disconnect, or you COULD just use the 208V source you have now and simply get a buck-boost transformer to step it up to 230V, that's pretty easy too. You would need to remove the Neutral as a separate circuit and just make the whole thing an totally isolated floating 230V L-L control circuit by tying what's now the N wire to one side of your new 230V source and removing the connection to L3 that is the source of your "Hot" side now. That can't exist in the system he has now, so that then would become the other side of your new 230V system. You would also need to completely isolate out those 3 pilot lights that apparently give him Phase indication, because those too are all phase to N, which again, can't work now. So either just abandon them, or you will have to find 400V rated pilot lights, which is not likely.
Now there is a secondary problem, and that is that all of the coils on his control system are going to be rated at 230V 50Hz, and even if you get to 230V, it's going to be 60Hz. In my experience, those coils will fry in short order. You really should replace them all now with 60Hz coils. So... if you are going to go to that trouble, you could consider changing his entire control circuit over to 120V controls, and just feeding it from the 120V he already has. That then leaves only two problem areas; the blower still needs 230V (although he said it was 50/60Hz) and there is a solenoid valve that you may not be able to change easily. So you STILL may need a 230V transformer just for those two devices. I would however probably try to find a replacement blower and solenoid valve that run on 120V, because sooner or later they're going to need to be replaced anyway, and he will likely have to wait weeks to get whatever they are from some EU supplier someday, so the down time will cost him a LOT more in the future when he is already in production. Better to bite the bullet now and make the whole system compatible with our standards.
Don't worry about warranty issues, this thing is already out of warranty. He owns it outright now.
If you want dome more help, PM me, I'm right down the road.
The motors he has are all rated 50/60Hz (from what he told me) which is a good thing. The main motor for the roller is powered by a VFD, also a good thing. So really, the ONLY major problem here is that he has the wrong transformer for a control system that is using the Neutral of a 400Y230V expected system (common outside of North America) for his control power and for the blower. So what I would suggest is what Adrian Wint suggested earlier, because he ALREADY OWNS that 400V transformer now and the thing was custom made, so he can't return it. So as Adrian suggested, just go get a control power transformer that will give you 230V on the output with enough capacity to run that blower, the controls, and the solenoid valve at the end of the schematic. I would go for 1500VA, that gives you some overhead for starting that blower. You COULD try to find one that steps down from the 400V you have now, and that simplifies it from the standpoint of everything coming from behind that one main disconnect, or you COULD just use the 208V source you have now and simply get a buck-boost transformer to step it up to 230V, that's pretty easy too. You would need to remove the Neutral as a separate circuit and just make the whole thing an totally isolated floating 230V L-L control circuit by tying what's now the N wire to one side of your new 230V source and removing the connection to L3 that is the source of your "Hot" side now. That can't exist in the system he has now, so that then would become the other side of your new 230V system. You would also need to completely isolate out those 3 pilot lights that apparently give him Phase indication, because those too are all phase to N, which again, can't work now. So either just abandon them, or you will have to find 400V rated pilot lights, which is not likely.
Now there is a secondary problem, and that is that all of the coils on his control system are going to be rated at 230V 50Hz, and even if you get to 230V, it's going to be 60Hz. In my experience, those coils will fry in short order. You really should replace them all now with 60Hz coils. So... if you are going to go to that trouble, you could consider changing his entire control circuit over to 120V controls, and just feeding it from the 120V he already has. That then leaves only two problem areas; the blower still needs 230V (although he said it was 50/60Hz) and there is a solenoid valve that you may not be able to change easily. So you STILL may need a 230V transformer just for those two devices. I would however probably try to find a replacement blower and solenoid valve that run on 120V, because sooner or later they're going to need to be replaced anyway, and he will likely have to wait weeks to get whatever they are from some EU supplier someday, so the down time will cost him a LOT more in the future when he is already in production. Better to bite the bullet now and make the whole system compatible with our standards.
Don't worry about warranty issues, this thing is already out of warranty. He owns it outright now.
If you want dome more help, PM me, I'm right down the road.
