EVSE and GFCI PROTECTION

[brycenesbitt]

I just don't see how car manufacturers can have a hard time with a car tripping a GFCI, but in a way I can becasue I have always had problems with electrical leaks in trucks. I remember when I had to put a huge kill switch on a the - terminal of friends old dodge pickup becasue nobody could figure out what was draining the battery.

@tortuga The issue appears to be the large AC to DC conversion circuits. This is the same issue with range hoods, fans, HVAC compressors. As these go to DC motors and circuits for controls, this introduces small switching noises. These are harmless from a safety point of view, but trip up the dumb GFCIs.
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The EVSE is just a relay, so not really involved in the electronics. However EVSE performs a ground continuity check that can also trip an upstream GFCI.

 

[brycenesbitt]

Here's what Mike Holt had to say about EVSC GFCI:
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Point 1. My revised text is to ensure that none of the rules contained in 210.8 apply EVSE and that this CMP decides what GFCI protection should be provided. Just like the RV Park rule
Point 2. I think you guys (includes the ladies) are shooting yourselves in the foot with the change in the first draft for the following reasons: 1. EV charging manufacture instructions often specify to NOT provide GFCI protectio
2. GFCI's are not available for over 150V-to-ground systems. So this rule cannot be complied with for EV charges operating at 277/480V circuit
3. The rule will also require three-phase GFCIs, now you are talking big bucks.
4. The cost for a 100A 120/240V GFCI is a fortune... like over a thousand dollars. Remember you can't get a GFCI for a 277/480V circuit.

	Related Item
• 8378

Submitter Information Verification

Submitter Full Name: Mike Holt Organization: Mike Holt Enterprises Inc Street Address: City: State: Zip: Submittal Date: Tue Jul 16 18:17:57 EDT 2024 Committee: NEC-P12

 

[Rjryan]

Rebutal:
Point 1- NEC 625.54 Explanation in the NEC Handbook: "Portable and fastened-in-place EVSE and WPTE THAT ARE PERMITTED TO BE CORD-AND-PLUG CONNECTED MUST BE SUPPLIED THROUGH A GFCI - PROTECTED RECEPTICLE. This includes all single-and three-phase receptacle configurations specified in 625.44(A) and (B) The outlet supplying direct - connected EVSE is not required to be GFCI protected, unless specified in the manufacture's instructions."
Point 2- GFCIs are available for 277/480 volt systems. Just Google it.
Point 3 &4 - Cost: The NEC does not consider costs but the protection of personnel. The average cost of an electrical vehicle is about $ 55K.
Welcome to Biden's world. Most people will not be able to own a vehicle when the EV mandate goes into total effect.

 

[retirede]

Rebutal:
Point 1- NEC 625.54 Explanation in the NEC Handbook: "Portable and fastened-in-place EVSE and WPTE THAT ARE PERMITTED TO BE CORD-AND-PLUG CONNECTED MUST BE SUPPLIED THROUGH A GFCI - PROTECTED RECEPTICLE. This includes all single-and three-phase receptacle configurations specified in 625.44(A) and (B) The outlet supplying direct - connected EVSE is not required to be GFCI protected, unless specified in the manufacture's instructions."
Point 2- GFCIs are available for 277/480 volt systems. Just Google it.
Point 3 &4 - Cost: The NEC does not consider costs but the protection of personnel. The average cost of an electrical vehicle is about $ 55K.
Welcome to Biden's world. Most people will not be able to own a vehicle when the EV mandate goes into total effect.

I’ve never seen a (listed) cord/plug connected EVSE over 40A, 240V single phase. 2 pole, 50A GFCI breaker. The maximum size receptacle permitted for EVSE connection in 625.44 is 60A, 250V, single phase.

The only 3 phase equipment that I’m aware of is >20KW and supplies DC to the car. Personnel protection is integral to the design. GFCI protection in the supply is not required and is unnecessary.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Rebutal:
Point 1- NEC 625.54 Explanation in the NEC Handbook: "Portable and fastened-in-place EVSE and WPTE THAT ARE PERMITTED TO BE CORD-AND-PLUG CONNECTED MUST BE SUPPLIED THROUGH A GFCI - PROTECTED RECEPTICLE. This includes all single-and three-phase receptacle configurations specified in 625.44(A) and (B) The outlet supplying direct - connected EVSE is not required to be GFCI protected, unless specified in the manufacture's instructions."
Point 2- GFCIs are available for 277/480 volt systems. Just Google it.
Point 3 &4 - Cost: The NEC does not consider costs but the protection of personnel. The average cost of an electrical vehicle is about $ 55K.
Welcome to Biden's world. Most people will not be able to own a vehicle when the EV mandate goes into total effect.

That will change in the 2026 code if the First Revision #8378 to 625.54 makes it through the complete code making process.

625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.
All receptacles and outlets installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

 

[brycenesbitt]

Point 3 &4 - Cost: The NEC does not consider costs but the protection of personnel.

SAE J1772 and IEC 61851 considered and solved the personnel protection issue for vehicle charging.
The solution involves several layers, and works. This is a solved problem.

The average cost of an electrical vehicle is about $ 55K.
Welcome to Biden's world. Most people will not be able to own a vehicle when the EV mandate goes into total effect.

Rebuttal: if EV's are still $55k, then I doubt the mandate, if there ever is a mandate, would hold.
Given where China is on EV costs, and where batteries are going, the econ boxes are likely to be EV soon enough.