Excavation trenching disclaimer

[bth0mas20]

Does anyone have a disclaimer that customers have to sign before you will dig on their property. I'm looking to start requiring a signature that relieves me from the responsibility to repair underground waterlines, cables, drainage, etc.

I understand this does not apply to utilities. I always call miss utilities for those to be marked.

I also use my own locator to locate items such as metal pipes, propane lines, or wires.

I have just found that once you dig in someones yard you will always be responsible for everything that goes wrong for years to come.

One instance I hit a dog fence wire. I think I have been called out 3 times to fix it and only one of the times was it because of the trench I dug. I still billed them for the other two problems that I found but it seems that they still think its your fault.

Another time I hit a PVC water line that went into the woods to a spicket. The homeowner said after I hit it "O yeah I forgot that was their" But he still expected me to go find stuff to splice it. A week later he calls and says the ground is wet. I dig it up and tighten the clamps and its sealed. A year and three months go by and I get a call from him asking me to come out again because it must be dripping again. Wanting me to dig it back up. My thought on this was that its not really my problem.

How am I suppose to step on someones property and know the history of any underground installs. I also can not locate PVC water lines.

I would just like to have a paper for them to sign. If I hit a water line going to their shed its on them to fix. I just finish my work and move on. Or if its an electrical wire they can pay me extra to fix that. Underground uf splices get expensive when you have to use two just because of the damage a trencher does to the wire. It also is a lot of time loss.

 

[macmikeman]

Exclude trenching, excavation, backfill, and concrete sawcutting and removal from your bids. Or do it all time and material and if you cut some lines just add the repair costs into the invoice, unless you have radar eyesight and can be expected to see thru dirt.

 

[mjf]

some of my favorite words on a contract : "all trenching done by others".

 

[mgookin]

OP says he does underground. So far the only 2 replies are saying don't do underground. That doesn't help OP.

One suggestion for contract language:
Underground construction involves risk of damage to existing underground infrastructure in addition to the possibility of encountering unexpected subsoil conditions including, but not limited to, rock, clay, aquifers, archeological items, existing or abondoned constrution elements and sink holes. Reasonable effort has been made to locate or predict said risk but no warranty is expressed or implied as to what will be discovered or encountered during construction. Proposal is an estimate only and is based on similar projects where adverse conditions were not encountered. Any such adverse conditions which arise during construction will require addtional work which will be billed at time and materials above and in addition to the amount shown on this proposal. By accepting this proposal, customer agrees to these potential additonal charges which may include work by others when necessary in the opinion of the contractor.

That seems to tell them that you didn't bring your magic 8-ball to the job site and any rut-ros will be billed at T&M and can even include hiring of other contractors when necessary in YOUR opinion. That's your out for them calling a year later saying that water line is leaking again - call a plumber!

And here's my disclaimer: I'm not an attorney and can't give you legal advice!

 

[GUNNING]

underground

underground

OP says he does underground. So far the only 2 replies are saying don't do underground. That doesn't help OP.

One suggestion for contract language:
Underground construction involves risk of damage to existing underground infrastructure in addition to the possibility of encountering unexpected subsoil conditions including, but not limited to, rock, clay, aquifers, archeological items, existing or abondoned constrution elements and sink holes. Reasonable effort has been made to locate or predict said risk but no warranty is expressed or implied as to what will be discovered or encountered during construction. Proposal is an estimate only and is based on similar projects where adverse conditions were not encountered. Any such adverse conditions which arise during construction will require addtional work which will be billed at time and materials above and in addition to the amount shown on this proposal. By accepting this proposal, customer agrees to these potential additonal charges which may include work by others when necessary in the opinion of the contractor.
That seems to tell them that you didn't bring your magic 8-ball to the job site and any rut-ros will be billed at T&M and can even include hiring of other contractors when necessary in YOUR opinion. That's your out for them calling a year later saying that water line is leaking again - call a plumber!

I've done a lot of underground, over 115 miles. Man up and tell the owner if they want a maintenance contract you will be more than glad to supply it. Charge accordingly for the added repairs and tell them it was unseen or hidden obstruction and will cost extra to excavate. I have seen guys dig across gas transmission lines hung over on a Saturday with picks while the gas rep and a few others looked on. If things went wrong they were not going to be in any position to complain. Accidents happen, that is why they call it an accident. Put it in writing or get an understanding that it is not a lifelong relationship to excavate a ditch, its an economic arrangement, ditch, wire, conduit labor. Everything else is unexpected hidden obstacle and not described in the original scope of work. Dirt work can be profitable and is always in demand for those that know how and have the right equipment and labor. It can also be subcontracted to those that do it regularly. Just a thought, if you need to see what someone else's contracts look like locally. If you don't ask you wont get it.

 

[Little Bill]

I learned all this the hard way a few months ago. I don't do any digging (other than a very small area) or trenching but I do have a guy that trenches for me.
I had a job that required a trench and the customer asked me to take care of the trenching. I explained to him that I just call a guy that does it and he wanted me to do that.
I asked him to call the locate service. He showed me where the utilities came in and they were all on the other side of the house. I said well we still need to call to have them to check.
He refused and said anything in the area of the trench, he had put in and knew exactly where they all were.:roll:

There were (3) items he mentioned, which were:
water line (not utility)
propane gas line (customer owned/installed)
sewer line (not utility)

The digging started where he said the water line was. The guy doing the trenching asked me to watch for him as his spotter wasn't with him. He carefully dug where the water line was supposed to be. When he reached the depth for the trench we didn't find any water line. So we moved on but I kept watching. About 30' from where the guy said the water line was we found the water line. Just lucky I saw it before any damage was done.

Next was the gas line. The tank was about 50' from the house. You could see the regulator on the house. We asked the guy if the line ran straight from the tank to the regulator. He said it was a straight shot from tank to the regulator and was about 12" deep. We moved off the said straight line about 10' to start digging to avoid the gas line.
The first scoop of the bucket I hear a " snap & woosh sound". Yep, hit the gas line first shot, 10' from where the guy said it was and only about 6" deep.:rant:
Shut everything down and went & bought supplies to fix the gas line.

Next was the sewer line. The trencher guy went real slow and careful where the sewer line was supposed to be. No line found, so continue on, still slow and careful. Went all the way to the house and still no sewer line.:huh: Thought we were home free at the house. The bucket was scraping the footer so any sound wasn't alarming me any. But the "funny smelling water" in the trench got my attention.
The sewer line was no where near where the guy said it was, and on top of that, it wasn't even where he said it entered the house.

So out of the (3) items we managed to hit two of them, and NONE of the three was anywhere near where the guy said they were!
To add insult to injury, the customer never once apologized or admitted he was wrong. He didn't even offer to pay for any of the supplies to fix the broken lines.

I know it was mine & the trencher guy's responsibility to verify everything, but locate services wouldn't help with non utility items. I guess something in writing, signed by the customer, may have helped since he was so sure of where the lines were.

One more bad experience from this:
I was paid for the job I did on this project. Then the customer asked me to do more work which was different than the first job. When I finished the 2nd job and passed inspection, the guy refused to pay me until I got the trencher guy back to "dress" the trench from the first job. It had settled some because of a ton of rain since the trench was filled.

I told the guy that a trench is going to settle and I really didn't have anything to do with that. But he said the trench guy was my subcontractor so it was my responsibility. I asked him why he didn't mention that before he paid me for the first job. He didn't have a reply for that. To cut to the chase, I had to pay the trench guy to go back and scrape about 1-2" of dirt into the trench.

Lesson learned:
Either I will have a paper drawn up stating everything from locating to trench settling,
and have them sign.
Or,
Better idea, I'm just going to put them in touch with the trench guy and let them make their own deal.
I would still put in my paperwork that I'm not responsible for anything regarding the trench!

 

[zbang]

He refused and said anything in the area of the trench, he had put in and knew exactly where they all were.

That's where I hand the guy a can of marking paint and say "Go to it, and we'll stay away from those lines. If we hit something you didn't mark, it won't be on us." I'd also go with mgookin's disclaimer or something like it.

 

[Little Bill]

That's where I hand the guy a can of marking paint and say "Go to it, and we'll stay away from those lines. If we hit something you didn't mark, it won't be on us." I'd also go with mgookin's disclaimer or something like it.

Yep! I've graduated from the "school of hard knocks" on this!

 

[cdslotz]

But he said the trench guy was my subcontractor so it was my responsibility.

He is correct. He's your sub, therefore, your responsibility

 

[bth0mas20]

OP says he does underground. So far the only 2 replies are saying don't do underground. That doesn't help OP.

One suggestion for contract language:
Underground construction involves risk of damage to existing underground infrastructure in addition to the possibility of encountering unexpected subsoil conditions including, but not limited to, rock, clay, aquifers, archeological items, existing or abondoned constrution elements and sink holes. Reasonable effort has been made to locate or predict said risk but no warranty is expressed or implied as to what will be discovered or encountered during construction. Proposal is an estimate only and is based on similar projects where adverse conditions were not encountered. Any such adverse conditions which arise during construction will require addtional work which will be billed at time and materials above and in addition to the amount shown on this proposal. By accepting this proposal, customer agrees to these potential additonal charges which may include work by others when necessary in the opinion of the contractor.

That seems to tell them that you didn't bring your magic 8-ball to the job site and any rut-ros will be billed at T&M and can even include hiring of other contractors when necessary in YOUR opinion. That's your out for them calling a year later saying that water line is leaking again - call a plumber!

And here's my disclaimer: I'm not an attorney and can't give you legal advice!

Great info. Thanks

 

[hurk27]

I have always put a disclaimer in my trenching contracts for any thing that is not locatable such as plastic sprinkler systems, sewer drain lines and or water lines, if there are tracing wires run with them I can locate them but if not I will not be responsible, I have the same tracer unit that the utility locater's use and it will pin point anything that is traceable, it will even tell me how deep it is and is very accurate, so far I have never hit anything that I could trace.

Sprinkler systems are the biggest problem as not very many installers put a trace wire in the trench with the pipe, or do they make a map of the runs so at least you have an idea where it might be, so most times you end up hitting them not just once but several times before you get across the yard, I will tell the customer to see if they can still get the installer to come out and mark them at least that puts the blame back on them if they are wrong, I always tell the customer that my locater can't locate plastic water lines but my trencher will.

Around here sewer and water lines are fairly deep because of the frost line and are not a problem, drain fields can be a problem because they can be close to the top, but most customers already know where it is so you can avoid them.

 

[bth0mas20]

I have always put a disclaimer in my trenching contracts for any thing that is not locatable such as plastic sprinkler systems, sewer drain lines and or water lines, if there are tracing wires run with them I can locate them but if not I will not be responsible, I have the same tracer unit that the utility locater's use and it will pin point anything that is traceable, it will even tell me how deep it is and is very accurate, so far I have never hit anything that I could trace.

Sprinkler systems are the biggest problem as not very many installers put a trace wire in the trench with the pipe, or do they make a map of the runs so at least you have an idea where it might be, so most times you end up hitting them not just once but several times before you get across the yard, I will tell the customer to see if they can still get the installer to come out and mark them at least that puts the blame back on them if they are wrong, I always tell the customer that my locater can't locate plastic water lines but my trencher will.

Around here sewer and water lines are fairly deep because of the frost line and are not a problem, drain fields can be a problem because they can be close to the top, but most customers already know where it is so you can avoid them.

I agree. Yards with sprinklers are hard to avoid damage even when hand digging.