expensive dimmer but chandelier strobes

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Stevenfyeager

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United States, Indiana
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electrical contractor
Never used Buster and Punch dimmers before ( $123 each ). Customer chose these. Chandelier flickers badly. Tried two different brand LED dimmable bulbs.
Syylvania and Eco smart. The staff person on line tried to tell us how to adjust the dimmer (Those directions not included in the instructions) By pushing the dimmer etc for 15 seconds, etc. No luck. The she said we (B and P) sell our own bulbs, you should try that. I haven't found candelabra bulbs on their site yet but found reg base bulbs for $78 each. The customer's chandelier is a $6000 one with 28 bulbs. Recommended 25 w incandes bulbs.
Any suggestions ? Thank you !
 
The handful of times I’ve come across this or similar, a load cap solved the issue.
Lutron has one. Lut-mcl
You could test solution first by wiring an incandescent parallel to fixture with switch or install one or more incandescents in the fixture.


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Shaneyj's suggestion is a good one.
I took a quick look at the specs for one of their dimmers, and it was rated for 600W halogen and 150W LED. And so, for example, if each of the 28 LEDs draws about 5W or less you should be good. But if they draw 7W, which some candelabras do, that would exceed the spec. In any case, just for a test you might try removing up to half of the bulbs to see if it makes any difference.
 
synchro said:
Shaneyj's suggestion is a good one.
I took a quick look at the specs for one of their dimmers, and it was rated for 600W halogen and 150W LED. And so, for example, if each of the 28 LEDs draws about 5W or less you should be good. But if they draw 7W, which some candelabras do, that would exceed the spec. In any case, just for a test you might try removing up to half of the bulbs to see if it makes any difference.
Click to expand...
Thanks. We had 40 w equiv. at first (4 or 5 watt, I can't remember) which was still under the Max and we tried just a few bulbs but it didn't help either.
 
Hi Running low in hope. Buster and Punch dimmer company doesn't make a candelabra led bulb. They wrote back and said the problem could be some incandescent bulbs on the same circuit as the LED bulbs in the chandelier. (Really, is that a problem ?) Also B and P said "compatibilty of dimmers with Nora Lighting : NIO 4 RTLA and NIO 4 RTLANDC and NIO STLANDC." I have no idea what they are saying here, who is Nora Lighting and what dimmers are these ?
I replaced the B and P dimmer with our usual Lutron and it did better but flickers at about the half way level. I tried adjusting the fine tuning lever, no luck. I have never had so much trouble with flickering, strobing.
And writing Satco bulb company, on their flickering, they said B and P dimmers won't work, their bulbs only work with reverse phase dimmers. What are these ?
Thank you !
 
I may have an answer. I just got an email reply from B and Punch. I think he is telling me that their dimmers are not compatible with ANY LED bulbs because they are made only for AC and LED drivers are DC. If this is true, why didn't I just look on the dimmer box and see it not listing use with LEDs? I had my employees installing the dimmers. I'll check tomorrow. I just assumed that $ 123 dimmers were LED compatible. If that turns out to be it, I feel like a dummy. Sorry if I wasted your time !!
 
Stevenfyeager said:
And writing Satco bulb company, on their flickering, they said B and P dimmers won't work, their bulbs only work with reverse phase dimmers. What are these ?
Click to expand...

The most common dimmers are "forward phase." They switch ON somewhere in between the zero crossings of the AC voltage waveform, and then switch OFF at the next zero crossing. Relatively low cost thyristors can be used for this function.
Reverse phase dimmers typically turn ON at a zero crossing, and then turn OFF at an arbitrary time later during the half-cycle. Reverse phase dimmers can be better where a capacitor needs to be charged such as in the driver within an LED bulb. This is because the voltage is low when it first turns ON, and so there is not a large spike in current like in forward phase dimmers.
 
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While I have heard of Buster and Punch, I have never actually encountered them. I question if they have an NRTL listing in the US. They don't appear to be the type of company that even makes their own dimmers.
That said, I have hade pretty good experience using Philips candelabra dimming bulbs using reverse Phase Lutron phase dimmers.
 
Just a wierd thought, try inserting (1) incandescent bulb along with the other LED's and see if that stops the flickering. I've also tried using a magnetic dimmer instead of the electronis ones that claim they can dim LED's and that has worked for me as well.
 
Buster & Punch is extremely overpriced garbage. I bought some for my house and threw it all in the trash. My wife found them online, looked incredible in the photos, what showed up was the most cheaply made junk I’ve ever worked with. All of the wall plates that I paid $30+/ea for were covered in scratches within days. The switches feel like something out of a mobile home.

You can find the same products on Alibaba and Ali Express.

If your customer wants something truly nice with a quality build, get them a Legrand adorne catalog.

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B and P emailed back and said I am correc with my question, their dimmers only work with incandescent bulbs. But on the dimmer box it has LED load listed !
Odd, very odd.
 

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Stevenfyeager said:
B and P emailed back and said I am correc with my question, their dimmers only work with incandescent bulbs. But on the dimmer box it has LED load listed !
Odd, very odd.
Click to expand...

B&P outsources manufacturing of the electrical devices so they have no idea. I think I saw an interview with the ceo saying they make the knobs and screw caps in-house but you can find the exact same stuff on Ali, so I doubt they’re producing anything directly in their electrical line.

The only products I’d recommend to your client if they really want that particular style is Mel-Jac or Forbes & Lomax. They’re 3-4x the price though.


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brantmacga said:
Buster & Punch is extremely overpriced garbage. I bought some for my house and threw it all in the trash. My wife found them online, looked incredible in the photos, what showed up was the most cheaply made junk I’ve ever worked with. All of the wall plates that I paid $30+/ea for were covered in scratches within days. The switches feel like something out of a mobile home.
Click to expand...

Maybe an early disgruntled user called their customer service line and in frustration said "Buster, I'm going to Punch your lights out", and then they decided to use it for their new name. ;)
 
B and P person emailed me that Nora bulbs are compatible with their dimmers. But I went on Nora site and couldnt find the bulbs he recommended.
NIO-4 RTLA or NIO 4 RTLANDC or NIO STLANDC "No results found" when I search on Nora Lighting site or other sites. I emailed back, waiting on response. Have you bought Nora bulbs before ?
 
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