extending a bedroom circuit
- Thread starter patc
- Start date
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Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
Pat, if your electrician is only extending and existing circuit, than I would say, NO. Here, we do not have to put afci on old circuits, as the older concealed wiring may not "hold" the breaker. Also, older switches tend to arc a little when toggled.
Pat, if your electrician is only extending and existing circuit, than I would say, NO. Here, we do not have to put afci on old circuits, as the older concealed wiring may not "hold" the breaker. Also, older switches tend to arc a little when toggled.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
Any new installation in an existing bedroom will require afci protection. This simply means you may or may not be able to extend off an existing circuit. Most states have an existing or maintenance building code. Check there for specific code requirements.
Any new installation in an existing bedroom will require afci protection. This simply means you may or may not be able to extend off an existing circuit. Most states have an existing or maintenance building code. Check there for specific code requirements.
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
I'm talking about a small bump out of a bedroom that would only require adding 3 outlets. The existing bedroom is fed from a multiwire circuit.The addition would not warrant pulling a new circuit.
This would not be considered maintenance, but an addition.
I'm talking about a small bump out of a bedroom that would only require adding 3 outlets. The existing bedroom is fed from a multiwire circuit.The addition would not warrant pulling a new circuit.
This would not be considered maintenance, but an addition.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
The only person that can give a definitive answer to this will be the AHJ or inspector for your area.
Do the work to code and charge accordingly.
In my opinion those 3 outlets are 'new' not existing they would need to be AFCI protected.
The only person that can give a definitive answer to this will be the AHJ or inspector for your area.
Do the work to code and charge accordingly.
Clayton502
Member
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
I believe extending the existing branch circuit should be allowed without arc fault protection. Lets use another example. How about a service change? Why not arc fault protect all bedroom circuits when changing a service? I believe the "intent" of the code is to require all new bedroom circuits to be arc fault protected. Just my opinion.
I believe extending the existing branch circuit should be allowed without arc fault protection. Lets use another example. How about a service change? Why not arc fault protect all bedroom circuits when changing a service? I believe the "intent" of the code is to require all new bedroom circuits to be arc fault protected. Just my opinion.
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
In my area any changes to a bedroom beyond maintenance (replacing an existing device or light) buys you a one way trip to AFCI land. The OPs situation of extending the circuit to add three additional outlets would certainly require AFCI here. They even stamp the requirements on remodel electrical permits in red ink. To make it even more onerous, the AFCI requirement means touching the smokes to put them on the AFCI circuit. Touching the smokes means having to upgrade to one in every bedroom, plus one on every level, all interconnected.
It's a slippery slope.
In my area any changes to a bedroom beyond maintenance (replacing an existing device or light) buys you a one way trip to AFCI land. The OPs situation of extending the circuit to add three additional outlets would certainly require AFCI here. They even stamp the requirements on remodel electrical permits in red ink. To make it even more onerous, the AFCI requirement means touching the smokes to put them on the AFCI circuit. Touching the smokes means having to upgrade to one in every bedroom, plus one on every level, all interconnected.
It's a slippery slope.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
All new OUTLETS need afci ,existing ones are grandfathered.Nothing gray about this
All new OUTLETS need afci ,existing ones are grandfathered.Nothing gray about this
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
We do a few service upgrades a month. Some with very old wiring, all permitted, none with afci.
One thing that I have learned here (and there have been MANY) is; that things are different all over. Here we are not required to put new afci on an old circuit, and for the reasons that I have already stated. I say that, and I had one of my guys do it. The afci held because the devices are new enough, and it passed inspection.
We do a few service upgrades a month. Some with very old wiring, all permitted, none with afci.
Clayton502
Member
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
2002 NEC Article 210.12(b) mandates all branch circuits that supply 125 volt single phase 15 and 20 amp outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms to be afci protected. The afci must protect the entire branch circuit. Adding outlets/receptacles on an existing branch circuit is not a new branch circuit just an extension. I still believe that the "intent"of this rule applies to new branch circuits.
How about another example, same basic principle of extending existing circuits. Small renovation of existing commercial building with nm cable installed in a drop ceiling. Electrician wants to extend existing branch circuit to a new office. Would he have to remove all nm cable in the ceiling for that circuit? I see no problem extending the circuit with mc/ac cable.
2002 NEC Article 210.12(b) mandates all branch circuits that supply 125 volt single phase 15 and 20 amp outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms to be afci protected. The afci must protect the entire branch circuit. Adding outlets/receptacles on an existing branch circuit is not a new branch circuit just an extension. I still believe that the "intent"of this rule applies to new branch circuits.
How about another example, same basic principle of extending existing circuits. Small renovation of existing commercial building with nm cable installed in a drop ceiling. Electrician wants to extend existing branch circuit to a new office. Would he have to remove all nm cable in the ceiling for that circuit? I see no problem extending the circuit with mc/ac cable.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
A 3 wire MWBC with one on an AFCI breaker will just not work.I defy anyone to do it and get the breaker to hold.You just can`t share the neutral from a non afci circuit and an afci circuit and expect it to workI have never encounterd two afci circuits that share the same neutral but I think the same result will occur.Besides to instal at the panel would mean that a pig tail splice be made in the panel and that would be the first clue that there is a screw up.
A 3 wire MWBC with one on an AFCI breaker will just not work.I defy anyone to do it and get the breaker to hold.You just can`t share the neutral from a non afci circuit and an afci circuit and expect it to workI have never encounterd two afci circuits that share the same neutral but I think the same result will occur.Besides to instal at the panel would mean that a pig tail splice be made in the panel and that would be the first clue that there is a screw up.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
Again we can all bat this around but in the end only the local inspector or AHJ can determine if you can extend the circuit as is or if you have to treat it as new.
Again we can all bat this around but in the end only the local inspector or AHJ can determine if you can extend the circuit as is or if you have to treat it as new.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: extending a bedroom circuit
That is a risky thing for the inspector to do.First they adopt nec then without a written amendment allow a violation.Fast way to end up in court should anything ever happen.Added items are not grandfathed.They need to comply.Originally posted by iwire:
Again we can all bat this around but in the end only the local inspector or AHJ can determine if you can extend the circuit as is or if you have to treat it as new.
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