External Receptacle While In Use Covers

[terryb]

Sorry Guys, I have obviously opened up a right can of worms here. I will hit the guys on my Plumbing Forum next !!!!
I am a Home Inspector from Europe, trying to figure out the NEC here in the States. Confusing to say the least.

By the way, in England, the MAIN DISCONNECT, 200 Amps or whatever is GFCI protected. I can see the down side of this, but if something goes wrong, regardless of location, porch, exterior, bathroom , garage de da de da de da, EVERYTHING IS OFF. Everybody survives. Simple.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Terry,

By the way, in England, the MAIN DISCONNECT, 200 Amps or whatever is GFCI protected.

Yes they have ground fault protection on the mains, but it is not the same as our GFCI. It trips at 30 to 50 mA...to high a number to provide real protection for people from electric shock. People protection GFCIs here must trip between 4 and 6 mA.
Don

 

[iwire]

Sorry Guys, I have obviously opened up a right can of worms here.

It's not a problem, it's what we do here.

in England, the MAIN DISCONNECT, 200 Amps or whatever is GFCI protected.

Not the same thing.

The trip setting of that GFI is much higher than the class A GFCIs that the NEC requires.

A Class A GFCI trips between 4 and 6 milliamperes.

The GFI main in England will have a much higher setting, although I do not know what the setting is.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Gmack,

You are in error on the article/section you quoted.

How so??

406.8(B)(1) 15- and 20-Ampere Receptacles in a Wet Location 15- and 20-ampere, 125- and 250-volt receptacles installed in a wet location shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof whether or not the attachment plug cap is inserted.

 

[terryb]

Thanks for the response Guys, I have it on good authority that the Main Breakers which are GFCI protected in England still trip in 1/30 of a second, regardless of anything else. GO FIGURE !! Their technology is superb.

 

[terryb]

By the way, England still has the regular GFCI protection in the Normal areas, wet locations, garage, etc etc, the Main Disconnect Protection is there as a last resort. But it works. And they dont break as often, like GFCI Receptacles here in the States.
Another concern i have here in the good old USA, why am i constantly finding new construction homes, ie built in the last 12 months, where Whirlpools either interior or exterior are not GFCI Protected. Confused.

 

[infinity]

Your right....if the receptacles are "other" than 15- and 20-ampere, 125- and 250-volt receptacles.

So when you install a 30 amp receptacle outdoors that will only be used while attended you will not have to install a bubble.

I agree with Bob. For 15 and 20 amp rec's in wet locations "in use" covers are required.

 

[allenwayne]

The use of in use covers is really up to the AHJ in that area.Common scence can dictate which receptacles need them (open area no cover above) But the AHJ will decide what is subject to a driving rain and what isn`t.Also the screened in porch issue.Just because it is screened in doesn`t negate the requirement for an in use cover.Although under cover and out of the driving rain a receptacle next to a CATV outlet will also require one.It is outside the actual building and designed to have a TV plugged in.As far as soffit receptacles go that is also an AHJ decision.99% of soffit receptacles are there for decorative lighting during the holidays.The lighting will be unattended,unless a drip loop is left the water will wick.Some of our inspectors require them some dont.Go figure.

 

[iwire]

Thanks for the response Guys, I have it on good authority that the Main Breakers which are GFCI protected in England still trip in 1/30 of a second, regardless of anything else. GO FIGURE !! Their technology is superb.

You really have no idea what your talking about do you?

It's OK not to understand about Overcurrent protection, equipment ground fault protection and personal ground fault protection but you probably should not be deciding which is superior without a little more study. As with almost everything in the world it is a questions of trade offs. You can put a GFI main in an American home if you want.....you may not like the result.

Another concern i have here in the good old USA, why am i constantly finding new construction homes, ie built in the last 12 months, where Whirlpools either interior or exterior are not GFCI Protected. Confused

Whirlpools or Hot tubs, the rules are different

I don't think I have ever seen exterior whirlpool tubs.

 

[Gmack]

Gmack,

How so??

You are right so are others. I was expressing an opinion that flip covers are/have been ok on many exterior applications and I would add that sometimes we need to take are noses out of the "book" and "look".

I just dont see a real disticntion between 15/20/30 amp receps installed as we are discussing. It dosent qualify as "wet" to me. And whats the difference between them if they are attended? A HO/Comm/Indstry could "un"attend a 30, so I dont see the perfection/advantage here.

Are in use covers necessary? Yes. Always, no. Should they be? I dont think so IMO. But Im sure others disagree and the sun will probably set on the ubiquitous flip cover

Just pointing out that in use and flip covers are allowed as Iwire pointed out.

 

[dandrea]

I say that if the porch is just screened, it's still outdoors. If it's got windows all the way around, then you're indoors.

Here in Florida a screen porch is still considered outside meaning that GFCI's and in-use covers are required. If the porch is enclosed with vinyl windows; the GFCI's and in-use covers are still required, if the windows are glass the porch then becomes a room and the receptacles need to be spaced per residential requirements including a switch and lighting outlet.

 

[iwire]

You are right so are others. I was expressing an opinion that flip covers are/have been ok on many exterior applications and I would add that sometimes we need to take are noses out of the "book" and "look".

If we stick our nose in the book we find the NEC has never required ugly bubble covers. The NEC requires a cover that keeps things dry while in use.

It is strictly a choice by the installer to use the ugly, easily broken bubble covers.

At least a few versions of recessed in use covers are available and look good.

I don't find the argument that 'flip covers have been used for years' a very compelling one.

For years panels had live fronts, now they don't.