Hello to all! Just need some advice on installing a cable assembly to light box in ceiling. I remember hearing something about an extra leg required to a ceiling box for lighting. regardless of whether you use it or not. So, in essence I would be required to run a 12/3 to ceiling box, in case they ever wanted to install a paddle fan. box is listed for fan support. Can,t find code section if there is one. Thanks !
extra spare leg required to ceiling box?
- Thread starter tld38
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Take a look at 314.27(C). If you bring the extra switched conductor up to the ceiling outlet then the box is required to be fan rated.
ceb58
Senior Member
- Location
- Raeford, NC
You are not required to run the 12/3 to the box. But if you do run it and there is a spare then the box must be listed for a fan.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Just to add to this, this was added to the 2011. It was not required before then.
So if you are not under the 2011 it's not required.
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
The requirement for a neutral at a switch is for the electronics involved in remote and dimming switches and nothing more. It is not three wires at the switch. It is required hot, switch leg and neutral (for electronics). To date light fixtures only require Switched hot and neutral. This is subject to future change as electronics in our business evolves.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
It's amazing how the tale of a code gets messed up from person to person.
What's more amazing is how few even own a code book, let alone how even fewer bother opening it up.
mjf
Senior Member
Not sure, but I think only neutral is "required" by code..... must provide the hot and switch leg only if we prefer it to be operational
.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
That is the answer to a different question than what the OP asks, and yes the hot and load wires are also necessary if you want it to work
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Kind of a conflict there, I agree. Maybe it should at least mention provisions for independent support if not using a fan rated box.
Some fans don't even mount on a outlet box http://www.bigassfans.com/product/p...&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=baf-homeslide
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- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
You need to re-read the OP. He was asking about if you run a spare conductor that could be switched, if the box at the ceiling outlet had to be fan rated.
Has nothing to do with the requirements for running a neutral to a switch.
Edit: I re-read it:ashamed1: and seems he is asking the question in reverse. If you had a fan rated box installed, do you have to run a third/spare conductor that could be switched. That is not required, but if you run the 3-wire you have to install a fan rated box. (2011 and later).
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Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
The 2011 code makes sense to me.
add the wire put in a fan box.
add the wire put in a fan box.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Though I think it is a good idea and have done that many times before it was a requirement, I still think it is a design issue and has no business being a code requirement. You can always install a fan box later or support it independent of the box. Even if there is no spare conductor, someone may want a fan installed someday, and if you use one with a remote control, the extra wire generally isn't necessary either.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
Look I don't like a lot of the code also.
However why would you have a second switch leg in a ceiling box. ( other than two circuit track)
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
For example a tall vaulted ceiling. Chandelier in the middle of the room & eyeball cans at the fire place. Run 14-3 to the chandelier use black & white. Red & white continues to the eyeball cans. You can save a separate 14-2 to the can light.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
But is this code item speaking for your scenario. I would think not as you are not having a second switch leg for use at that location . i would call that a feed through conductor not a switched conductor. It becomes a switched conductor at the first point it is used.
Just my take.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
Don't know if it is different in the NEC but the CAEC states:
Where spare. separately switched. ungrounded
conductors arc provided to a ceiling mounted out let box,
in a location acceptable for a ceiling-suspended (paddh
fan in . ingle or multi-family dwellings~ the outlet box or
outlet box system shall be listed for sole support of a
Spare is the KEY word. In your case the wire is not a spare it is being used by the eyeball.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Well one could someday feed a second luminaire instead of a fan. Again design issue not a safety issue. When someone does decide to install the fan they do need to support it properly - that is a code and safety issue at that time. I have thanked myself before for installing a fan box. I have also had to either install fan boxes or come up with alternate support method. I saw it as just something that happens and wasn't that big of a deal.
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