Eye Care Facility

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jkmaute

Member
Would an eye care facility be classified as a health care facility, as defined in Article 517? This office will fit patients for glasses & contact lenses, no surgery or invasive procedures. I am inclined to think this facility would not need to comply with Article 517. Any comments will be appreciated.
 
Take a look at the definition of Patient Care Areas - specifically the general care areas. Are they being examined for corrective lenses? If any of these apply, then it is considered a Health Care Facility.
 
Eye Care

Eye Care

Yes, the patients will be examined, so considering this I expect this falls under Article 517. There will be a variety of diagnostic instruments in use in the examining rooms. I now expect Part B will apply. Comments?
 
Last edited:
jkmaute said:
Yes, the patients will be examined, so considering this I expect this falls under Article 517. There will be a variety of diagnostic instruments in use in the examining rooms. I now expect Part B will apply. Comments?
Click to expand...

The majority of these places are just regular retail.
That small room in the back where you are actually examined however...

Also, check the lighting and switching design carefully.
Many of these are set up with all sorts of extra and oddly placed things.
 
buckofdurham said:
you just need to use hospital rated mc cable and isolate your ground,
It's not very much more
Click to expand...

What article and section does this come from?

Roger
 
buckofdurham said:
you just need to use hospital rated mc cable and isolate your ground,
It's not very much more
Click to expand...

I agree with Roger and Chris.

Where are you comming up with the requirement to "isolate your ground"?

Chris
 
jimman said:
Take a look at the definition of Patient Care Areas - specifically the general care areas. Are they being examined for corrective lenses? If any of these apply, then it is considered a Health Care Facility.
Click to expand...
I disagree. They are being "examined" in the same context that a person will be examined by a barber, a tailor, a palm reader, a banker, and a real estate agent, before any of these people ply their trades. I don't see any part of 517 applying to an optometrist or an optician. An ophthalmologist (i.e., surgeon) is another matter.

Think of the main reasons that 517 exists. One is that there is medical equipment connected to a person, and that poses additional risks of shock. Another is that the continuous availability of electrical power to medical equipment may be vital to the treatment of the person. Neither of these applies to the "examination" that consists of, "does it look clearer this way . . . or this way."

I like the statement that most eye care business are essentially retail outlets.
 
jkmaute said:
Would an eye care facility be classified as a health care facility, as defined in Article 517? This office will fit patients for glasses & contact lenses, no surgery or invasive procedures. I am inclined to think this facility would not need to comply with Article 517. Any comments will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

517.1 Scope. The provisions of this article shall apply to
electrical construction and installation criteria in health care
facilities that provide services to human beings.
Click to expand...

517.2 Definitions.
...
Health Care Facilities. Buildings or portions of buildings
in which medical, dental, psychiatric, nursing, obstetrical,
or surgical care are provided. Health care facilities include,
but are not limited to, hospitals, nursing homes, limited
care facilities, clinics, medical and dental offices, and ambulatory
care centers, whether permanent or movable.
Click to expand...

The scope of the article is limited to health care facilities. A health care facility is clearly defined within the article.The use you are describing is not one of the six uses that define what a health care facility is.
 
Last edited:
charlie b said:

I disagree. They are being "examined" in the same context that a person will be examined by a barber, a tailor, a palm reader, a banker, and a real estate agent, before any of these people ply their trades. I don't see any part of 517 applying to an optometrist or an optician. An ophthalmologist (i.e., surgeon) is another matter.
Click to expand...
That's probably a minority opinion. I've wired a good many eye doctor's offices for a chain, across many jurisdictions. In each one, the exam rooms were considered a 517 location by the AHJ's. Even the room where the girl (not a doctor) uses that little machine that blows a puff of air in your eye to check for glaucoma was to be wired as a 517 room. In the end, it's only a couple small, isolated areas of the occupancy. Even Wal-Mart Optical (a company famous for cutting out costs and waste) specs that the exam room(s) be wired as 517 locations.
 
charlie b said:

I disagree. They are being "examined" in the same context that a person will be examined by a barber, a tailor, a palm reader, a banker, and a real estate agent, before any of these people ply their trades. I don't see any part of 517 applying to an optometrist or an optician. An ophthalmologist (i.e., surgeon) is another matter.
Click to expand...
Charlie
I would have to agree because you can spell ophthalmologist.
 
Definition

Definition

I'd look at 517 and read the definition of Health Care Facilities. Also might want to look at how NFPA 101 defines Health Care Facilities also.
 
A health care facility is clearly defined within the article.The use you are describing is not one of the six uses that define what a health care facility is.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go so far as to say that a health care facility is CLEARLY defined within Article 517.

What constitutes "medical care"?

Chris
 
E Torres said:
I'd look at 517 and read the definition of Health Care Facilities.
Click to expand...
I did, and I didn't see "vision care" on the list.
E Torres said:
Also might want to look at how NFPA 101 defines Health Care Facilities also.
Click to expand...
Don't need to, since that would not influence the applicability of NEC 517.
 
charlie b said:
I did, and I didn't see "vision care" on the list.

Don't need to, since that would not influence the applicability of NEC 517.
Click to expand...

Charlie - I agree completely with Marc on this.

517.2 - Health Care Facilities - "...but are not limited to..." i.e. this list is not all inclusive.

Patient Care Area - "General Care Areas" - ...'Patient...treatment rooms...and similar areas in which it is intended that the patient will come in contact with ordinary appliances such as ...examining lamps...telephone'. - this list is pretty comprehensive.

Anyway....like Marc said, the jurisdictions I've worked in [San Francisco bay area] have considered these areas as covered by Art. 517.
 
dana1028 said:
Charlie - I agree completely with Marc on this.

517.2 - Health Care Facilities - "...but are not limited to..." i.e. this list is not all inclusive.
Click to expand...
That may be, but if its not one of the six enumerated uses, it does not matter what you call it. its not a health care facility.
dana1028 said:
Patient Care Area - "General Care Areas" - ...'Patient...treatment rooms...and similar areas in which it is intended that the patient will come in contact with ordinary appliances such as ...examining lamps...telephone'. - this list is pretty comprehensive.
Click to expand...
It does not matter one whit what general care areas are defined in the article if the article does not apply.
dana1028 said:
Anyway....like Marc said, the jurisdictions I've worked in [San Francisco bay area] have considered these areas as covered by Art. 517.
Click to expand...
Many jurisdictions require things in practice that are not actually required by the code. Sometimes there are local amendments to the code that require them, but mostly it is someone(s) at the inspector level just decided thats the way it is going to be and the local contractors went along with it, either because they like the arrangement, don't know any better, don't care, or are afraid to raise the issue.
 
What would you define a glaucoma exam as?

Typically you get checked for glaucoma when you get a routine eye exam.

Here is the definition of optometry from Webesters dictionary:

"the health-care profession concerned especially with examining the eye for defects and faults of refraction, with prescribing correctional lenses or eye exercises, with diagnosing diseases of the eye, and with treating such diseases or referring them for treatment "

It appears that the good folks at Websters believe that an optometrist is a health care professional.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
What would you define a glaucoma exam as?
Click to expand...
A exam that employs a machine that imposes no risk of electric shock to the person who is being tested with it, and for which the loss of electrical power would not impose any health risk to the person who is being tested with it. Implementation of any part of 517 would not add any level of safety whatsoever.
raider1 said:
It appears that the good folks at Websters believe that an optometrist is a health care professional.
Click to expand...
I certainly agree that such a person is a health care professional. That does not make the person?s place of business a ?health care facility,? in the specific context of NEC article 517. We can?t mix common English language terms with terms that are defined in the NEC.

Feel free to exceed the NEC requirements if you wish, or if the client wishes. Feel free to comply with the AHJ?s wishes, if you don?t choose to fight back on this issue. My point is simply that the NEC does not require an optician?s office to be treated as a health care facility.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top