failed above ceiling insp.

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POWER_PIG

POWER_PIG

Senior Member
Hi all!
I always enjoy this forum and respect all the good people involved with it.
I learn something everytime I come here and today I suspect will be no different.
I failed an above ceiling today for not supporting the 2x4 lay-in fixtures as per 2005 NEC 410.16 (c).
I used framing screws to attach the fixtures to the grid ( like I always do)
the inspector tells me that attaching to the grid is only acceptable if they are screwed to a "main" grid runner. I have read over and over again that particlular art. in the code and can't see what he see's.
I never try to argue with inspectors, and just hung all the lights with grid wire to be done with it, but would really like to know If I have been in violation all these years.
Your thoughts / comments will be appreciatied!
 
In and around Baltimore MD, it's in the building code.. Some local codes towards DC require all 4 corners supported. BTW, The wires should be painted or identified from ceiling support wires.
 
We've had to do them every which way. it depends on the time of day or time of the month, I never know what to expect so I always check with the inspector before hand so I don't have an issue (personally, I think that firefighters prefer that they are wired up anyway, but what do I know)
 
captaincrab55 said:
In and around Baltimore MD, it's in the building code.. Some local codes towards DC require all 4 corners supported. BTW, The wires should be painted or identified from ceiling support wires.
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NEC Code ref? Or are you talking about local code?
 
I don't understand how screwing your lights to the grid does not comply with 410.16(C)?? I screw to the grid and have yet to have a problem with this method, in fact inspectors usually ask me if the lights are secure and I always say "screwed to the grid". I understand a local requirement, but it seems that you do comply with 410.16(C).
 
Here I go by 410.16(C), FBC 803.9.1.1, which leads you to ANSI C-636.2.7.2.

So I screw them to the grid and supply the cables and 2x4's with thier own support.

I'm covered.
 
Whoops I don't know what that was all about ??? There was no NEC violation ,..most likely local rule.


http://preview.ecmweb.com/nec/code_quiz/code_quiz_091307/

Q. According to the 2005 NEC (not any specific state or local code), when installing 2-foot by 4-foot fluorescent lay-in luminaires in suspended ceilings, how many corners of any one of the luminaires require an independent support wire to support it?
    1. All four corners.
    2. On any two opposite corners.
    3. On any two corners. The support does have to be on opposite corners.
    4. There is no requirement for independent support wires for this application as written.

Answer: D

There is no requirement for independent support wires for this application as written. [See 410.16(C)] However, some states, such as California, and some municipalities (check Chicago, Louisville, Ky., Charleston, S.C., Frankfort, Ky., and others) may have specific requirements for independent support for luminaires installed in suspended ceilings. Owen is the owner and president of National Code Seminars and the holder of master electrician certifications in 46 states. He can be reached at necexpert@aol.com.
 
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POWER_PIG said:
just hung all the lights with grid wire to be done with it, but would really like to know If I have been in violation all these years.
Your thoughts / comments will be appreciatied!
Click to expand...
Hanging the lights with grid wire does not satisfy the requirements of the NEC. It may satisfy a local code, but you still need to fasten the light fixture to the grid. And as long as the ceiling framing members are securely fastened to each other, it doesn't matter if it's a "main" grid or not.
 
If you are not going to screw into the mains, that are wired to the structure,

then you really might as well not bother at all. IMO
 
M. D. said:
Whoops I don't know what that was all about ??? There was no NEC violation ,..most likely local rule.


http://preview.ecmweb.com/nec/code_quiz/code_quiz_091307/

Q. According to the 2005 NEC (not any specific state or local code), when installing 2-foot by 4-foot fluorescent lay-in luminaires in suspended ceilings, how many corners of any one of the luminaires require an independent support wire to support it?
    1. All four corners.
    2. On any two opposite corners.
    3. On any two corners. The support does have to be on opposite corners.
    4. There is no requirement for independent support wires for this application as written.
Answer: D

There is no requirement for independent support wires for this application as written. [See 410.16(C)] However, some states, such as California, and some municipalities (check Chicago, Louisville, Ky., Charleston, S.C., Frankfort, Ky., and others) may have specific requirements for independent support for luminaires installed in suspended ceilings. Owen is the owner and president of National Code Seminars and the holder of master electrician certifications in 46 states. He can be reached at necexpert@aol.com.
Click to expand...

AH HA! Trick question! The answers are numbered 1,2,3,4 and yet the correct answer given is as D! :grin:

And yes, I have no life tonight........

Edit: forgot to mention - it is likely a local building code issue, not NEC - most likely International Building Code
 
Tim,

It's not as much pain as having the fixture smash into your face while trying

to fight a fire or rescue a person. How would you feel if it was you that just

screwed into the 'tie' pieces and found out a firefighter got ---whatever!

Like I said, JMO
 
Around minneapolis, building code makes us use wires, and some places don't want any screws. The reason is because the firefighters don't want the lights to drop if the are puling down tiles.
 
benaround said:
If you are not going to screw into the mains, that are wired to the structure,

then you really might as well not bother at all. IMO
Click to expand...
That may be so, but the NEC does not require us to do it that way.

benaround said:
It's not as much pain as having the fixture smash into your face while trying

to fight a fire or rescue a person. How would you feel if it was you that just

screwed into the 'tie' pieces and found out a firefighter got ---whatever!
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is arguing that tie wires are not a good idea. Just politely pointing out that they are not required by the NEC.
 
Recently finished a retail center where we screwed in the fixtures and had opposite corners supported with grid wire. Elect. insp was happy, but when the fire marshall walked through he made us remove the screws.
 
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