Failed Ceiling Fan Box

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hbiss said:
Just what the heck is that a picture of????

-Hal
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kwired said:
OP's looks like maybe a Carlon box?

Here is a link to one that is said to be for ceiling fans yet if you read the description it says "not fan rated" :slaphead:
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AFAIK you can use a non-fan-rated ceiling box as long as it is not required to support the fan. (mentioned earlier)

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jumper said:
What part number?

I only seek kwired and sierra's links.

Did you post a link and part number that I missed?
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I think he was saying the one I posted a link to that is confusing as to whether or not is rated for fan support is indeed rated for it on Carlon/T&B site. Don't know if that is the same box he had in the OP though.
 
A/A Fuel GTX said:
I wonder how tough it is to get a UL listing these days? Apparently not too difficult. Not the first time I've seen a ceiling box fail.
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Did the box actually fail or was a bit of the plastic cracked and broke off? Were the screw threads for the bolt that holds the fan bracket further back in the fan box? What I see broken off looks like plastic and I can't imagine plastic threads being fan rated.

I normally use metal boxes and I'm not real familiar with the plastic or fiberglass boxes.
 
growler said:
Did the box actually fail or was a bit of the plastic cracked and broke off? Were the screw threads for the bolt that holds the fan bracket further back in the fan box? What I see broken off looks like plastic and I can't imagine plastic threads being fan rated.

I normally use metal boxes and I'm not real familiar with the plastic or fiberglass boxes.
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Can't recall a specific model of the top of my head, but sure I have seen some non metallic boxes rated for fan support that the support fasteners thread directly into the plastic box box body.

Have also seen existing Carlon blue boxes that held a fan for a long time.

One I ran into that did come partly down and was basically being supported by wiring method afterward was a metal octagon box (not fan rated) that was fastened to wood member above it with roofing nails. after 40-50 years wood dries out nail becomes loose fit in the wood and gravity takes over, had it been fastened with screws it would still be that way and nobody would have cared.
 
kwired said:
Can't recall a specific model of the top of my head, but sure I have seen some non metallic boxes rated for fan support that the support fasteners thread directly into the plastic box body.
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I don't think I would trust something like that at all. Fan rated or not. I have used some fiberglass boxes where the mounting screw go all the way into the wood joist ( long wood screws).
 
kwired said:
One I ran into that did come partly down and was basically being supported by wiring method afterward was a metal octagon box (not fan rated) that was fastened to wood member above it with roofing nails. after 40-50 years wood dries out nail becomes loose fit in the wood and gravity takes over, had it been fastened with screws it would still be that way and nobody would have cared.
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That may have been legal at the time of install. If I remember correctly fan rated boxes were not required until sometime in the late 80's. The number #8 screw of an octagon box was good enough and the electrician needed to determine if the box was mounted securely.
 
GoldDigger said:
AFAIK you can use a non-fan-rated ceiling box as long as it is not required to support the fan. (mentioned earlier)

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I do it all the time. With a 2x4 across the top of the box and the wood screws hold the fan bracket in place just nice and solid.
 
jumper said:
What part number?

I only see kwired and sierra's links.

Did you post a link and part number that I missed?
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BH525LR is the Carlon part number for this box that failed. Plastic box with plastic threads. The box was originally installed 3+ years ago. I'm considering shipping back to Carlon to see what they say may have happened. The fan bracket was held to the box by 8-32 screws, supplied by me, not the cheap metric ones that often come with fans/fixtures. I always tighten the screws on any ceiling fan/fixture a little beyond snug but I can't see how even if they were over tightened the result being this. I'm at a loss.
 
ptonsparky said:
I had a customer who walked in while her daughter had clothes hanging from the spinning fan blades. Sometimes.
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That is an excellent way to burn out a fan motor. Many years ago when my at the time grade school aged daughter had a Hallowe'en party at our house, she and my wife fashioned four small ghosts from balloons and white cloth and fastened them to the blades of a ceiling fan with strings a couple of feet long. They ran the fan at its lowest speed and it ran for about an hour before it died.
 
A/A Fuel GTX said:
BH525LR is the Carlon part number for this box that failed. Plastic box with plastic threads. The box was originally installed 3+ years ago. I'm considering shipping back to Carlon to see what they say may have happened. The fan bracket was held to the box by 8-32 screws, supplied by me, not the cheap metric ones that often come with fans/fixtures. I always tighten the screws on any ceiling fan/fixture a little beyond snug but I can't see how even if they were over tightened the result being this. I'm at a loss.
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Are you sure that the Catalogue number is BH525LR? I can't find a fan box that was Listed by UL with that Catalogue number. There is a BH525LP that is listed to support a fan not exceeding 35 pounds.

Also you must install the box in accordance with the manufactures installation instruction. Make sure that you didn't over torque the screws and that you used the screws supplied by the manufacture.

On a side note the UL File number shown in the Carlon Catalogue E42728, has been withdrawn and replaced with the File Number E11461 incase you are searching for the file in the UL DATABASE.

Chris
 
Just a reminder that a fan rated box must be used in certain situations even if you have an alternate means of support.

314.27(C) said:
Where spare, separately switched, ungrounded conductors
are provided to a ceiling-mounted outlet box, in a location
acceptable for a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan in one-family,
two-family, or multifamily dwellings, the outlet box or outlet
box system shall be listed for sole support of a ceiling-suspended
(paddle) fan.
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jumper said:
I have never seen a fan bracket mounted with 8-32 screws. 10-32 IME always.

8-32 screws in a plastic box for a fan=failure.
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There are all kinds of fan rated boxes out there that use 8-32's. Carlon, Allied Moulded, and Cantex are just some of them.
 
raider1 said:
Are you sure that the Catalogue number is BH525LR? I can't find a fan box that was Listed by UL with that Catalogue number. There is a BH525LP that is listed to support a fan not exceeding 35 pounds.

Also you must install the box in accordance with the manufactures installation instruction. Make sure that you didn't over torque the screws and that you used the screws supplied by the manufacture.

On a side note the UL File number shown in the Carlon Catalogue E42728, has been withdrawn and replaced with the File Number E11461 incase you are searching for the file in the UL DATABASE.

Chris
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BH525LR is right from T&B's website.
The screws that come with fans and fixtures are junk from China that don't even fit the threaded holes properly.
I have never seen torque specs for residential nail on boxes. Do they exist?
 
A/A Fuel GTX said:
BH525LR is right from T&B's website.
The screws that come with fans and fixtures are junk from China that don't even fit the threaded holes properly.
I have never seen torque specs for residential nail on boxes. Do they exist?
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T&B BH614R boxes have a note that the screws should be tighten to 10 in.-Lbs.

Chris
 
jumper said:
I have never seen a fan bracket mounted with 8-32 screws. 10-32 IME always.

8-32 screws in a plastic box for a fan=failure.
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There is a pretty good picture of the BH525LR at the Lowe's web site. They do say it's fan rated to 35 lbs. It's not just a nail on but has a metal bracket on the back side.

It does have the standard holes for 8-32 screws but I'm thinking those are for light fixtures.
Since it does have a metal bracket on the back I'm thinking there is a set of screws to connect the fan mounting bracket to the support bracket of the box and not depend on plastic holding 8-32 screws.

They don't give installation instuctions so if I think about it I will look closer the next time I'm in Lowe's. Even the metal fan boxes do have a place for 8-32 screws but we don't use them when mounting ceiling fans.
 
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