Failed final: bathroom switch accessability

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If the lights turn on automatically you do not have a vacancy sensor. You are required turn the lights on manually and they will turn off automatically. Are you sure the inspector had an issue with the location and not the type of switch used?
 
Residential guy

Residential guy

Saw that exact thing on a problem solving walk through, TODAY!

This was caused by a relocation of the door by 90?'s in a short coved hallway of the bedroom. Lucky there were down lights that were close enough to the metal framing to fish to the desired side at the door swing. There was also a finished suspended ceiling with will add in this process.
Some proper mechanical applications may be required.

Boss finally cracked a joke and said to other guy, "U sure your a residential guy"!

It's really nice to get to see some of ones work all detailed and painted.
Various other apts are in use and some are near ready for sale!

It even better to see people making it a home!
I just don't get that feeling often being mostly heavy commerical! :)
 
cadpoint said:
Saw that exact thing on a problem solving walk through, TODAY!

This was caused by a relocation of the door by 90?'s in a short coved hallway of the bedroom. Lucky there were down lights that were close enough to the metal framing to fish to the desired side at the door swing. There was also a finished suspended ceiling with will add in this process.
Some proper mechanical applications may be required.

Boss finally cracked a joke and said to other guy, "U sure your a residential guy"!

It's really nice to get to see some of ones work all detailed and painted.
Various other apts are in use and some are near ready for sale!

It even better to see people making it a home!
I just don't get that feeling often being mostly heavy commerical! :)
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Now I see why they have coined your posts "Cadpointese" . This is certainly a language all it's own. :grin:
 
Who Knew!

Who Knew!

electricmanscott said:
Now I see why they have coined your posts "Cadpointese" . This is certainly a language all it's own. :grin:
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Situations, Talk, Stories, & Code, besides the Poker table is Full!

I make friends everywhere I go, as long as I leave my money @ the Table!:cool:
 
deckscrew said:
The inspector is a nice guy. A young guy two years out of inspector's school.
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Show this "newbie" Inspector the definition of "readily accessible" In the NEC and suggest that you have met this requirement. in a nice guy sort of way.;)
 
This is not a NEC problem, in California we must also comply with "Title 24":

http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/

The inspector believes that Title 24 is being circumvented because the vacancy sensing switch is behind a door and therefor rendered ineffective.

Many electricians believe Title 24 is the energy efficiency code, in fact all building codes in California are chapters in the Title 24 code book.
 
I have wire hanging in the cieling of a new home right now waiting for the HO to make up thier minds about the door swing and have been informed by the inspector on this job that it is something he is picky about even if the HO isn't. Que pena!!:smile:
 
Fire Alarm said:
This is not a NEC problem, in California we must also comply with "Title 24":

http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/

The inspector believes that Title 24 is being circumvented because the vacancy sensing switch is behind a door and therefor rendered ineffective.

Many electricians believe Title 24 is the energy efficiency code, in fact all building codes in California are chapters in the Title 24 code book.
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The original poster said the inspector quoted "NEC 400-something."
 
202ecmCQAFig9.gif
show him this
 
Thanks for all the replies. I now have a better idea between motion sensor and vacancy sensor. The drawings called for a motion sensor and the inspector was satisfied with that. I recently did another job where we failed because we did not put a sensor in the bathroom, although the drawings did not call for a "motion/vacancy" sensor switch. The inspector, and this is a good inspector, directed me to get a motion sensor, and then passed the job

Most of these small towns north of San Francisco have one inspector that does everything and they are unfamiliar with all the requirements of the new Title 24 lighting requirements.

The inspector originally failed us for having a switch behind the door and not Title 24 compliance. We are going to change the switches to vacancy sensor, but fight the accessibility issue.

Thanks for all the responses. Always good to learn something.
 
Since no one else mentioned it, we all have become spoiled. I have been remodeling my grandfather's house after he passed and all I can say is that we have come a long way electrically speaking. The main service was a 60 amp little panel that you could fit almost in your coat pocket, only a couple of rooms even had receptacles (2 on average) and in order to turn on ANY light you had to walk to the center of the room to pull the string on the keyless light fixture. And someone wants to gripe about having to close the door a little to get to the switches. By the way the changing of the door swings by the homeowner happens a lot, after the rough in, which makes it virtually impossible to change at that point. And they always ask "can you move those switches to the other side"? to which I quote one of my favorite replies,"My good magic wand is in the shop and all I've got is this loaner"!:grin:
 
Fire Alarm said:
That vague statement does not refute the possibility that Title 24 may be the issue.
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This is not a title 24 issue as far as location goes. The title 24 code says nothing about the location of the switch it does require a "manual on / auto off" operation , so a motion switch is not correct for the application. The intent of this code is energy conservation so if the switch is behind the door it will function when the door is closed , when your using the bathroom, if the door was left open it would not detect a person in the room and shut off. This would save energy and do exactly what the code was intended to do.
Personally I think the inspector has just made a bad call and will reverse him self when shown the code or asked by his superior to back it up with a code section. We have had to put switch's in some "not so convenient'' locations in the past and there is no "code" saying it is wrong.
You may want to point out Article 90.1 Purpose.
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.
(B) Adequacy. This Code contains provisions that are considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.
 
Deckscrew,

I'm reposting, in part, what others have already posted in this thread.

Below, in normal print, is the definition, from the National Electrical Code, of readily accessible. Following the definition, in italics, is the explanatory text accompanying the definition, from the National Electrical Code Handbook.

The explanatory text is not "enforceable", but it gives the clear statement that even a locked door is "readily accessible" when specific people have the key.

A swinging door is much more accessible than a locked door.
2005 NEC Article 100 Definitions
Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

The definition of readily accessible does not preclude the use of a locked door for service equipment or rooms containing service equipment, provided those for whom ready access is necessary have a key (or lock combination) available. For example, 230.70(A)(1) and 230.205(A) require service-disconnecting means to be readily accessible. Section 225.32 requires that feeder disconnecting means for separate buildings be readily accessible. A commonly used, permitted practice is to locate the disconnecting means in the electrical equipment room of an office building or large apartment building and to keep the door to that room locked to prevent access by unauthorized persons. Section 240.24(A) requires that overcurrent devices be so located as to be readily accessible.
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