Failed final for not having panel schedule

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TOOL_5150

TOOL_5150

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bay area, ca
I pulled a permit to upgrade an FPE 100A service to a square d 100A service. meter outside, main breaker panel inside garage.

I failed the final for not having the panel labeled. The origional panel onlu had washer, dryer, and disposal labeled, which I kept track of, and labeled in the new panel.

Is it my job to go through the house and find out all the circuits and label them?

I need NEC articles, I will be talking to the inspector tomarrow.

Thanks for the help fellas,

~Matt
 
George Stolz said:
I'd say yes. You installed the new panel, right?

How many circuits were involved?
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I personally did install the panel. and there is between 20 and 30 circuits.




I appreciate the help.... my brain is dead. Just did a 12 hour shift and i STARTED the day by drilling a ho;le in a 12/3 romex :mad:


Thanks guys,

~Matt
 
TOOL_5150 said:
Sure enough....
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Now it's a matter of how detailed you need to get in finding the unmarked circuits. Some inspectors want nothing more than "Bedroom Receptacles", while others want "North and east wall of North Bedroom, South, west and east wall of South Bedroom Receptacles". Sure, that's a lot to cram into that little 3x?" space, that's why I make my own panel schedules on the computer and print them to labels.
 
If you are by your self. Plug a loud radio in to the outlets you are checking. Beats the heck out of running back and fourth a thousand times.
 
480sparky said:
Now it's a matter of how detailed you need to get in finding the unmarked circuits. Some inspectors want nothing more than "Bedroom Receptacles", while others want "North and east wall of North Bedroom, South, west and east wall of South Bedroom Receptacles". Sure, that's a lot to cram into that little 3x?" space, that's why I make my own panel schedules on the computer and print them to labels.
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Looks like ill be buying a circuit tracer. Any of you guys had any good experience with the smaller ideal tracer? I think they go for 40 or 50 bucks at big orange.


I wish I had the time to be that detailed, but I need this thing finaled since POCO will be there friday to do the OH cutover. :rolleyes:

~Matt
 
I just turn off a circuit, then go around and see what doesn't work. Once you find a circuit that doesn't have power, you can pretty much guess what else is on that circuit. After going around finding what's dead, I turn that circuit back on, then turn another one off.
 
480sparky said:
I just turn off a circuit, then go around and see what doesn't work. Once you find a circuit that doesn't have power, you can pretty much guess what else is on that circuit. After going around finding what's dead, I turn that circuit back on, then turn another one off.
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That is probably fine - it is a small house after all.


Ill post a pic of the romex I tore up tomarrow. Im going to bed.

~Matt
 
TOOL_5150 said:
Looks like ill be buying a circuit tracer. Any of you guys had any good experience with the smaller ideal tracer? I think they go for 40 or 50 bucks at big orange.
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I have one...think I paid $30 for it a few years back ~ of course that model is discontinued and the new one is $40 -$50.


Even it's a small house...draw a little map for yourself to label which circuits have been tested ~ it can save you some running around time and maybe even show how someone else wired the place.
 
Often tracers will ring through to other breakers and even the whole panel - but have their merits. The boom box method works pretty well in most smaller homes where you can hear the radio - I have even used louder power tools in the same method. But it doesn't work well in situations like multi-family or multi-story where you might not be able to hear squat. So in those situations I use multiple methods of intuition and deduction - fancy words for guess and check.... :grin:
 
I have used my hot stick and walky talky with trandmitter taped in transmit position.

I do wonder why we see so many unmarked panels. When you do panel changes you must bring them up to code, that includes label.
 
Sometimes labeling circuits takes a long time especially for one man even with a noise device. You still have to look at what else you turned off besides the receptacle your plugged into. But it is a requirement and the time has to be figured when pricing the job.
 
masterinbama said:
this is probably why we end up with so many panels with circuits labeled "plug" and "lights".
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At least one inspection agency here has warned everyone that "plugs and lights" will not work on the directory.

I found an even easier way to ring out the circuits. I told my son to do it.
 
TOOL_5150 said:
I wish I had the time to be that detailed, but I need this thing finaled since POCO will be there friday to do the OH cutover. :rolleyes:

~Matt
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It's not that hard to label a panel if you do things in the right order.

First do all double pole breakers. AC units, range, water heater and dryer.

Next do all the easy circuits, kitchen small appliance,disposal & dish washer bathroom circuit, laundry and furnance.

Then get the ones close to you like the basement circuit or garage door opener.

Get as many of the circuits eliminated early as you can then the others will fall into place more easily. This will help you keep from getting false reading from a tracer because most of the circuits will already be marked.

I find that if you type out a panel schedule and have all the major circuits label correctly and clearly then they are not so picky when it comes to the ones that are labled attic, foyer and exterior.

I normally want even use a tracer just a radio and the process of elimination.
 
Turning off a circuit with a boom box only tells you ONE receptacle that's on that circuit. Are you going to do that with EVERY recep????? That seems like a lot of running back & forth...:cool:

OK, find one circuit with the boom box, then walk around and find what else doesn't work.

This method works better than most would imagine. Once you locate a dead circuit, they generally tend to stay in that area. So the first 15a circuit might be one bedroom, the bath lights, and the hallway. Now you've found 1/5 of the general-purpose circuits. The next 15a might be the Master Bedroom & living room receps/lights. Third 15a might be kitchen lights, stairs & back porch. 4th, dining room & front door..... Once you identify a circuit, you don't need to worry about it any more. It's not like you're walking the entire house for each and every circuit.

Dedicated circuits are much easier to find... fridge, dishwasher, kitchen c-tops, furnace, sump. And 220 circuits are easier yet (dryer, AC, water heater, range). Some can be identified just by looking in the panel at the wires.
 
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