Failed inspections

[ty]

Good for you. Glad you can cause havoc for everyone else an not fail your electrical inspection. I am sure you would be hired again by a GC after doing all of that right?

First. Most GC's do not care. They care about who is cheapest (for the most part). If EC fail an inspection, EC has to fix it. This doesn't cost the GC anything. If it does hold up their schedule, EC is probably fined as outlined in job specs. (again, GC lost no money, EC did)
If EC is low number on the next job, EC gets the job. Even if EC failed an inspection on previous job.

Apparently you don't do the above because you are aware of other requirements.

that wouldn't be your concern. it would be the building inspector's job to point out.

Yes I do perform other inspections because I am a multi-discipline inspector.

What is that?????? and how does that affect what my inspection application form states??

Keep slammin away rather than trying to expand your knowledge and understand that the NEC is not the only game in town and often is not the only standard that applies.

This is where YOU do not understand Your job.
YOUR job is to inspect the Electrical items listed on my Electrical Application per NEC.

The NEC references the NFPA 72 so you probably have that standard in your truck too right? NFPA 497-2004 & 499-2004 are also referred to along with direction for you ro refer to ANSI/NEMA 250-1991, ANSI/UL 1203-1994, ISA-RP12.12.03-2002, ANSI/ISA-12.12.01-2000, ANSI/ NFPA 496-2003, ANSI/API RP 14F-1999 and the list can go on.

This is mostly mumbo-jumbo that really does not affect the standard Electricain working in the field. The current version of the NEC is all he needs.

The NEC gets a lot of its information from other established codes.

??? There are Code Making Panels. You can submit a Code Change, I can, anybody can. There is a process.

I am not slamming anyone and I am certainly not holier than thou and have explained that. Change is coming to your town soon and I was hoping that I could get that point across since that seems to be the biggest grip here.

No. You made a list of Code Violations. Some of those items were NOT Code Violations at all. Some didn't have enough info to decide if they were.

The electricians in PA lived and died by the NEC alone until the I-codes were adopted then they had to step up to the plate and learn more or fail inspections.

I grew up in PA and my first job in this trade was in PA. Most of PA didn't follow any Code for many years, and alot of rural places didn't have any inspections to be heard of.
Since you said in an earlier post that you were opposite Pittsburg, then you must be near Philly.
I work all around that area. At one time I had over 25 municipality licenses (and that was Before the IRC was adopted Statewide). Upland, Ridley, Chester, Marion, Springfield, Broomall, and a whole bunch more. We also work in West Chester and that surrounding area up to Pheonixville and Landsdale, Conshy, the list goes on.
My Brother's company works from State College area to Harrisburg and York.
I get a big concensus of PA inspectors.
Some are good, some are bad. MANY, overstep their bounds and scope.
And Many are very under-educated as far as the NEC is concerned. (but so are alot of the unregulated, unlicensed Electricans) PA has definately got the 'cart before the horse'.

The responses from some of the ECs has not surprised me and even a moderator has commented that this would cause problems. I see it all the time whenever we don't pass an inspection. We are all human but react differently when we fail.

Bob's concern (IMO) is that he read your initial list and saw issues with it. Knowing that some of the very intelligent and highly NEC versed (unlike myself), would pick it apart.

You as the Electrical Inspector, unless specifically hired by a Municipality as a Building inspector, have no authority to Fail an inspection for anything other than an NEC Violation.

 

[ivsenroute]

Ty, you are very far off key here with your post, especially since you are being more specific about PA.

The PA-UCC regulates the permit and inspection process for all disciplines. It is primarily a re-write of the IBC. The NEC is not adopted in PA, the electrical section of the IRC and the IEC are adopted, both which REFERENCE the NEC.

If your electrical installation fails because it does not comply with section 505 of the IECC then it is your problem, no one elses problem. There is no "energy" contractor, you are it and you must understand that in order to be an electrician in the I-Code states, you must understand that your job is not only from the NEC but others.

If you don't place your switches at the right height, the accessibility inspector will fail your installation. It is the electrical installation that is not code compliant and the height for ADA under the ANSI 117.1 and chapter 11 of the IBC is what caused you to fail.

I just love you guys who still look through the same set of blinders because you don't want to see everything else.

There are states where the inspectors are limited to the NEC. PA is not one of them and the contractor that caused the violation will be the once cited. Does not matter if it is not an NEC issue.

And yeah, you will hold the job up. Especially when we are called out for a final and the GC can't wait for the C of O so he can get paid then the electrical installation fails under the IECC and the EC has to order and install all new luminaires.

 

[ty]

Ty, you are very far off key here with your post, especially since you are being more specific about PA.

No, I am not. I work there alot. Who do you work for BIU?? In NEPA?

If your electrical installation fails because it does not comply with section 505 of the IECC then it is your problem, no one elses problem. There is no "energy" contractor, you are it and you must understand that in order to be an electrician in the I-Code states, you must understand that your job is not only from the NEC but others.

I AM NOT, repeat AM NOT an Energy Contractor, I don't care What state I'm in. That is spelled out clearly in the, read this: Leagally Binding contract, that is signed between me and my customer. I, or my company, in No Way foam holes, fire caulk, or whatever. It is NOT my problem, it is the builder's problem.

Now, if you feeeeel that you are authorized to fail and Electrical Inspection due to firecaulk, then fail it. It does Not concern me. I am not paid to do it. Period.
(Do you have a #14 Cert, or just #11?)

If you don't place your switches at the right height, the accessibility inspector will fail your installation. It is the electrical installation that is not code compliant and the height for ADA under the ANSI 117.1 and chapter 11 of the IBC is what caused you to fail.

Then it should fail from the accessibility inspector (#23 Cert), not the Electrical Inspector(#19 Cert for Commercial).
This is where alot of inspectors try to overstep their bounds... ("well it's gonna fail the accessability, so I'll fail it now...")

I just love you guys who still look through the same set of blinders because you don't want to see everything else.

I don't have blinders on, and I take that as an insult. You have now changed my tone.
And if I didn't have the respect that I do for this site's owner and some of the long-time friends I have made for the many years that I have participated here, I would have alot more to say.

I CLEARLY see everything else.
You are looking for someone to blame for some Code that has nothing to do with the NEC.
Scott summed it up earlier.
If I cut through a Laminated beam to run wires through, it is NOT you call as the Electrical Inspector to fail that job.

There are states where the inspectors are limited to the NEC. PA is not one of them and the contractor that caused the violation will be the once cited. Does not matter if it is not an NEC issue.[?QUOTE]

It sure does if you are there to inspect the Electrcal job.
You are ONLY authorized to Inspect what is written on my application, BY LAW.
If there is a building Code issue (and you have that Cert, then you can't fail that portion until called for the Building inspection. Symantics.)
You would not want to get into this pissing contest with me. Would you like me to give you names and numbers of others who have tried and failed?

And yeah, you will hold the job up. Especially when we are called out for a final and the GC can't wait for the C of O so he can get paid then the electrical installation fails under the IECC and the EC has to order and install all new luminaires.

Not my problem. My Contract would be worded correctly, and I would get paid for my Final and for the Extra work.

It sounds like maybe you failed as a contractor and are now bitter, and instead of trying to work with people, you are out to get someone.

 

[M. D.]

There seems to be a lot of complaining about inspectors and their lack of code knowledge. This is a common a problem for electricians as it is inspectors.

Just read the thread ,..not sure what to make of it ,...
I don't who , what , where,..or why but I'm glad I'm not there ... yikes!

 

[prh1700]

"He" Dad or "he" the boss?

It was my Dad. Which is why the boss never let me work in that county again

 

[elohr46]

For those under the I-Codes: (this includes all trades)

106.4 Amended construction documents. Work shall be
installed in accordance with the approved construction documents,
and any changes made during construction that are not
in compliance with the approved construction documents shall
be resubmitted for approval as an amended set of construction
documents.


For those in PA: (again, includes all trades)

(l) Work shall be installed in accordance with the approved construction documents. The permit holder shall submit a revised set of construction documents for approval for changes made during construction that are not in accordance with the approved construction documents.

(m) A permit is not valid until the required fees are collected under ?? 401.2 and 401.2a (relating to Department fees; and municipal and third-party agency fees).

I have read all of your posts in this thread and it sounds to me that you are describing Philadelphia and the surrounding areas. I worked 39 years in that area as an electrican/foreman on many large projects and I can say that everything you have posted is spot on. I have had to deal with many of the situations that you mentioned, it brings back many memories, some good some bad. This is how we function in Philly.

 

[Umlaut]

i simply asked the OP to post some of the pics of "work" he has taken, to better explain why he is complaining. i'm sure we all would be quite entertained...

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems like you're saying that we'll think something different about the OP if only we know what you know, but aren't sharing with us.