Fair Per Diem Compensation

[JP23]

For out of town jobs where the employer is paying for the lodging what do you suppose would be a fair
flat rate amount to pay for food expenses only?

 

[petersonra]

For out of town jobs where the employer is paying for the lodging what do you suppose would be a fair
flat rate amount to pay for food expenses only?

The irs publishes such rates. Why not use them?

There are different rates for different places to account for cost differences between areas.

 

[oldsparky52]

For FY 2016, the per diem rate for high-cost areas is $275, (up from $259 in FY 2015), consisting of $207 for lodging and$68 for meals and incidental expenses (M&IE). The per-diem for all other localities is $185 (up from $172 in FY 2015), consisting of $128 for lodging and$57 for M&IE. http://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/news/12116387/irs-issues-new-per-diem-rates-for-2016

 

[oldsparky52]

What is fair probably depends on how you look at it, and what you do for meals when at home.

If when you are home you always go out to a fast food joint for lunch, then how does out of town affect that? If you skip breakfast, same question. Dinner is the one that I believe their is no argument about IMO.

I think in most places, you can get a decent dinner for $25 (alcoholic beverages should not be on the employer).

Lunch? $10 should do it.

Breakfast? $10 should leave change.

So, in most places $45 should be adequate.

This of course is just my opinion.

 

[dfmischler]

The other angle on this is, do you want your employees to be begging to go out on these jobs, and run the risk of inter-employee jealousy when they are not chosen? Or would you prefer that they hate to go out on these jobs? Pretty hard to consistently come down right in the middle.

 

[tkb]

What is fair probably depends on how you look at it, and what you do for meals when at home.

If when you are home you always go out to a fast food joint for lunch, then how does out of town affect that? If you skip breakfast, same question. Dinner is the one that I believe their is no argument about IMO.

I think in most places, you can get a decent dinner for $25 (alcoholic beverages should not be on the employer).

Lunch? $10 should do it.

Breakfast? $10 should leave change.

So, in most places $45 should be adequate.

This of course is just my opinion.

$45 is very fair considering that you are going to spend money anyway eating when you are at home. This is above that expense.

I have been out eating and have seen several times that someone asks for two checks. One with the food for expense reasons and one for drinks that they pay on their own since it isn't reimbursable.

 

[growler]

$45 is very fair considering that you are going to spend money anyway eating when you are at home. This is above that expense.

In the late 80s and early 90 we were getting $20-$25 a day and I entered that into an inflation calculator and it comes out to around $45. The ecomomy wasn't that great then either and we were in NC, SC, Forida, Texas not real expensive areas. It's reasonable.

Most men with families are still buying groceries at home when on the road and that doesn't change much when they are not there to eat.

 

[tkb]

Most men with families are still buying groceries at home when on the road and that doesn't change much when they are not there to eat.

So when you eat at home it doesn't cost anything?

 

[growler]

Most men with families are still buying groceries at home when on the road and that doesn't change much when they are not there to eat.

So when you eat at home it doesn't cost anything?

I didn't say that, I said that most family men won't notice much of a change in expenses at home. They are not home to take showers or have their clothes washed but there won't be a real noticeable difference in the power bill either.

 

[JFletcher]

When i was out of town, per diem was $20/day and lodging was paid for. That was almost a decade ago. Was below avg but breakfast was free, cigs were $2.50 a pack, and you could find a lunch for $3 and dinner for $6. We had money left over most days, enough so that we could go to Longhorn for steaks and drinks at least twice/trip, and a bbq joint or two as well. VA, NC, SC. We stayed in everything from HIE to places that made the Bates Motel look like a HIE.

We did have problems twice with lodging not being pre-arranged, but we sorted that rather quickly.

eta: food isnt your only expense. Oddly enough, laundry came in second behind food, especially in the summer months.

 

[growler]

So, in most places $45 should be adequate.

This of course is just my opinion.

I think that adequate is the perfect word for it. Not to cheap and not extravagant.

 

[Smart $]

In the late 80s and early 90 we were getting $20-$25 a day and I entered that into an inflation calculator and it comes out to around $45. The ecomomy wasn't that great then either and we were in NC, SC, Forida, Texas not real expensive areas. It's reasonable.

Most men with families are still buying groceries at home when on the road and that doesn't change much when they are not there to eat.

So when you eat at home it doesn't cost anything?

The term per diem has different meaning depending on your point of view. The GSA looks at it as cost per day to stay away from home for work, period. The rates they publish are not meant to be an offset amount to compensate for the total cost of living while working away from home. This is typically why per diem remuneration for non-government employees is less than published rates.

 

[jumper]

When i was out of town, per diem was $20/day and lodging was paid for. That was almost a decade ago. Was below avg but breakfast was free, cigs were $2.50 a pack, and you could find a lunch for $3 and dinner for $6. We had money left over most days, enough so that we could go to Longhorn for steaks and drinks at least twice/trip, and a bbq joint or two as well. VA, NC, SC. We stayed in everything from HIE to places that made the Bates Motel look like a HIE.

We did have problems twice with lodging not being pre-arranged, but we sorted that rather quickly.

Pretty much the same for me.

Did not do SC though. VA, NC, and MD. Food Lions.

 

[Smart $]

Pretty much the same for me.

Same here mid to late 90's... area covering NY to GA to TN to WI.

In more recent years, I get remunerated a flat rate for both lodging and M&IE. $95 to $130 depending on contract (seems to be based on area costs, but not specified).

 

[JFletcher]

Pretty much the same for me.

Did not do SC though. VA, NC, and MD. Food Lions.

Hotels for me. I think the very definition of "miserable" is working in SC in July; 90* and 95%rh by 9am, no air moving. Got nailed with heat cramps once there, the trip to the not-so local MASH unit, err, hospital was fun. Not.

 

[petersonra]

we get $50 a day for meals and incidentals. it seems fair unless one is in a very high cost area and there we have the option to collect receipts instead.

the thing is that, at least for us, we need to reduce the hassle factor as much as possible. a fixed amount for meals and incidentals makes it a lot easier than having to collect receipts, and often the traveler ends up with a little left over, which makes it a little easier to encourage people to travel who really don't want to.

me, I lose on the deal because I have to board the dog while I am gone.

 

[Smart $]

...
the thing is that, at least for us, we need to reduce the hassle factor as much as possible. a fixed amount for meals and incidentals makes it a lot easier than having to collect receipts, and often the traveler ends up with a little left over, which makes it a little easier to encourage people to travel who really don't want to.
...

FWIW, the IRS requires the "extra" to be claimed as income on your tax return. IIRC, you can use GSA M&IE rate(s) in lieu of receipts for such, but you must use actual lodging cost.

 

[zog]

We always use GSA rates since they vary so much by date and location
http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/104877

 

[GoldDigger]

Let's just work this out:
For each meal two Dollar Menu items and a soft drink. Total for three meals: $12.

 

[iwire]

I didn't say that, I said that most family men won't notice much of a change in expenses at home. They are not home to take showers or have their clothes washed but there won't be a real noticeable difference in the power bill either.

Notice or not it makes a difference.

Why should an employee take a hit for the company?