Family Sues Hilton Over Electrocution in Pool

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Just found out the update on this case, the electricians are being charged for criminally negligent homicide.
I always thought that when a person worked for a Corporation, then the company would be held liable as a whole, not the individual.


http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...lectrocution-of-man-at-4968736.php?cmpid=hpbn
That still depends on conditions. In general they go after the company first, but as an individual you can still end up being the negligent party. If there is any willful malicious intent discovered, the employer becomes more disconnected from any liability.

How would the hotel employees know unless they're electricians themselves.?
That is why we are not attorneys. Prove they knew there was still a problem even though they don't know much about the technicalities, any good lawyer will get them deeply involved in being at least partially responsible.
 

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
That still depends on conditions. In general they go after the company first, but as an individual you can still end up being the negligent party. If there is any willful malicious intent discovered, the employer becomes more disconnected from any liability.



That is why we are not attorneys. Prove they knew there was still a problem even though they don't know much about the technicalities, any good lawyer will get them deeply involved in being at least partially responsible.
Good point.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Cases like this is why I point out to many on here that doing electrical work is not just about codes and passing inspection, it is about making sure your work can not cause something that could injure or kill someone, this is not the first post we have seen on here where electricians have been charged and found guilty of involuntary manslaughter as well as other charges, ones I know of were three electricians in Florida during hurricane Charlie three electricians were charged with man slaughter from hooking up generators with a widow make cord that killed three line men, another was where an electrician in Connecticut wire in a 120 volt base board heater that was on a 240 volt circuit and cause a fire that killed a 12 year old boy, there are many others, but we must know what we are doing if not we should get help from someone who does.

Liability and knowing that when I leave a job, I know that I wont be reading about it in the paper that someone got hurt is one of the biggest motivators that rule how I do my work, The last thing I would ever want is to have to live with knowing that I did something that hurt or killed someone, especially a child, if we let these thoughts rule how we do our work we will become much better electricians in the sense of being safe and that our work is done in the most safest manner we can do it.

Never get caught up in thinking it wont happen to you, because if you start believing this then you can start letting your guard down and it will become not a matter of if but a matter of when.

I knew a homeowner who tried to do some of his own work that ended up killing his family, the pain of knowing this was so great that he ended his life because he could not live with it, that is a pain I would never want to bare even if it wasn't my own family it would still be too much.

In the last few years I have started seeing more and more workers who only care about getting a pay check, to them it's just another job, not a careerer that we used to put everything we have into it and learning it to the fullest to be the best we can be, sadly because of this we will see more and more stories like this hitting the news.

How many times have we seen people come into here asking if they can get away with this or that, but when we tell them what they need to hear that what they are doing could hurt or kill someone or could land them in prison that is not what they want to hear, we should keep on telling these people only the correct and safe way and tell them what they need to hear not what they want to hear.
 
Last edited:

Fulthrotl

~~Please excuse the mess. Sig under construction~~

Conrad

Member
The real world

The real world

Cases like this is why I point out to many on here that doing electrical work is not just about codes and passing inspection, it is about making sure your work can not cause something that could injure or kill someone, this is not the first post we have seen on here where electricians have been charged and found guilty of involuntary manslaughter as well as other charges, ones I know of were three electricians in Florida during hurricane Charlie three electricians were charged with man slaughter from hooking up generators with a widow make cord that killed three line men, another was where an electrician in Connecticut wire in a 120 volt base board heater that was on a 240 volt circuit and cause a fire that killed a 12 year old boy, there are many others, but we must know what we are doing if not we should get help from someone who does.

Liability and knowing that when I leave a job, I know that I wont be reading about it in the paper that someone got hurt is one of the biggest motivators that rule how I do my work, The last thing I would ever want is to have to live with knowing that I did something that hurt or killed someone, especially a child, if we let these thoughts rule how we do our work we will become much better electricians in the sense of being safe and that our work is done in the most safest manner we can do it.

Never get caught up in thinking it wont happen to you, because if you start believing this then you can start letting your guard down and it will become not a matter of if but a matter of when.

I knew a homeowner who tried to do some of his own work that ended up killing his family, the pain of knowing this was so great that he ended his life because he could not live with it, that is a pain I would never want to bare even if it wasn't my own family it would still be too much.

In the last few years I have started seeing more and more workers who only care about getting a pay check, to them it's just another job, not a careerer that we used to put everything we have into it and learning it to the fullest to be the best we can be, sadly because of this we will see more and more stories like this hitting the news.

How many times have we seen people come into here asking if they can get away with this or that, but when we tell them what they need to hear that what they are doing could hurt or kill someone or could land them in prison that is not what they want to hear, we should keep on telling these people only the correct and safe way and tell them what they need to hear not what they want to hear.
I have been out of the industry for many years as far performing the work myself. I have still been in a position to see what others do.
Unless the situation is such that there is no way around a permit and inspected work, I would have to say 95% of owners will not pay the cost of hiring a qualified Electrician. The man who costs the company little but gets the lights or equipment going (by whatever means and with no knowledge of the dangers present) is what they value. It is amazing how quick the words "I didn't know he did that" flow out of their mouths, and how righteous they act. While I too think Lawyers have gone crazy with frivolous suits, this is a case where they will be the ones who deal out the justice.
I have no idea if the Electrician responsible for this was trained and careless or just someone who called himself an Electrician and was stupid and greedy.
The one simple fact is that if you are qualified to do the work, and pay attention, the odds of something such as this are very, very low.
I have no idea of the Electrician or Contractor certification system in Texas, in my corner of the industry they are known for being "business friendly" and having little regulation.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I have been out of the industry for many years as far performing the work myself. I have still been in a position to see what others do.
Unless the situation is such that there is no way around a permit and inspected work, I would have to say 95% of owners will not pay the cost of hiring a qualified Electrician. The man who costs the company little but gets the lights or equipment going (by whatever means and with no knowledge of the dangers present) is what they value. It is amazing how quick the words "I didn't know he did that" flow out of their mouths, and how righteous they act. While I too think Lawyers have gone crazy with frivolous suits, this is a case where they will be the ones who deal out the justice.
I have no idea if the Electrician responsible for this was trained and careless or just someone who called himself an Electrician and was stupid and greedy.
The one simple fact is that if you are qualified to do the work, and pay attention, the odds of something such as this are very, very low.
I have no idea of the Electrician or Contractor certification system in Texas, in my corner of the industry they are known for being "business friendly" and having little regulation.
I have to disagree with that 95% figure you mentioned. I will agree that the number probably runs higher in the residential market, but may not be quite that high.

There are many, and especially when it comes to operating business and industry, that know a professional will cost more than a non professional, but do not want to mess around with the non professionals. Some don't even mess around with the small 1-4 man shops even though they may be very good, may lack the resources to respond to all their needs.

I think a lot of what I said is true even before considering licensing or permits and what they add to the situation.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
Here in PA it could be as high as 95% in many areas. Very few jurisdictions require any kind of license or work certification at all for electricians and the state contractor license has really confused customers about licensing even more. They think that a guy who has a state contractor's license is a licensed electrician. Guys like that can charge whatever low fees will get them the work while guys like me seem too expensive. Builders and GCs don't seem to care about anything other than price, not only in regards to electricians - see this report about new homes rotting from incorrectly installed stucco:

[video]http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/video?id=9319402[/video]

At the end of the day, I don't really mind since I get customers who want solid work performed by someone who knows what they're doing, but I get scared thinking about all the really bad work done out there by those who don't know the trade.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Here in PA it could be as high as 95% in many areas. Very few jurisdictions require any kind of license or work certification at all for electricians and the state contractor license has really confused customers about licensing even more. They think that a guy who has a state contractor's license is a licensed electrician. Guys like that can charge whatever low fees will get them the work while guys like me seem too expensive. Builders and GCs don't seem to care about anything other than price, not only in regards to electricians - see this report about new homes rotting from incorrectly installed stucco:

[video]http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/video?id=9319402[/video]

At the end of the day, I don't really mind since I get customers who want solid work performed by someone who knows what they're doing, but I get scared thinking about all the really bad work done out there by those who don't know the trade.
Again, I think you will see that number decline some in business and industry, but will be higher in the residential market. Even if you throw out licensing or permits, there are those that don't contract or call for service based on price alone, they want their work done in reasonable time and with reasonable accuracy and are willing to pay a little more to ensure they get that. A contactor or service man that is holding up production may very well cost much more in lost production than they saved over another contractor that can do it right.
 
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