farm panel

[jap2525]

a 200amp 1ph breaker in an enclosure is installed under a meter for a chicken house.4/0 urd (2) hots and a neutral are installed (100')from this breaker to a 42 cir mb panel in the chicken house.
a ground rod is installed and the neutral is bonded in this panel all neutrals and grounds land on the neutral bar.approx. 2' of pvc conduit is installed from this panel to a 100amp breaker and enclosure and is tapped off of the 200amp mainbreaker terminals with #2 urd.the feeder then leaves the 100amp breaker enclosure (2) hots (1) neutral no ground (#2 urd aluminum) and extends to a 12 cir main lug panel for lights and fan receptacles,located in an opensided silage storage building approx. 100',a ground rod is driven and the neutral is bonded to the can once again,all neutrals and grounds are on the same bar. should a ground wire have been pulled with the feed to the panel at the silage barn or not?should a main disconnecting means been installed in the main lug panel even though the 100 amp main breaker is in the chicken house?

 

[tom baker]

Re: farm panel

"should a ground wire have been pulled?"

What version of the NEC was in effect when the installation was done?

 

[jap2525]

Re: farm panel

2002

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: farm panel

Since there was a 200 amp main after the meter any panels after that primary panel must have an isolated ground/neutral at the next sub panel no neutral bonding.2002 code.BTW how did it pass ?

 

[iwire]

Re: farm panel

Originally posted by jap2525:
a 200amp 1ph breaker in an enclosure is installed under a meter for a chicken house.4/0 urd (2) hots and a neutral are installed (100')from this breaker to a 42 cir mb panel in the chicken house.
a ground rod is installed and the neutral is bonded in this panel all neutrals and grounds land on the neutral bar.

This may be code compliant if it meets the requirements in 250.32 Two or More Buildings or Structures Supplied from a Common Service.

250.32(B)(2) Grounded Conductor. Where (1) an equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the building or structure, (2) there are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in both buildings or structures involved, and (3) ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the common ac service, the grounded circuit conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be connected to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s) and shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded. The size of the grounded conductor shall not be smaller than the larger of

(1)That required by 220.22

(2)That required by 250.122

Originally posted by jap2525:
approx. 2' of pvc conduit is installed from this panel to a 100amp breaker and enclosure

In this short section of PVC a grounding conductor is required to ground the 100 amp breaker enclosure and the neutral should not be bonded to the 100 amp breaker enclosure. (I am talking about the 100 amp enclosure 2' away from the 200 amp panel)

Originally posted by jap2525:
and is tapped off of the 200amp mainbreaker terminals with #2 urd.the feeder then leaves the 100amp breaker enclosure (2) hots (1) neutral no ground (#2 urd aluminum) and extends to a 12 cir main lug panel for lights and fan receptacles,located in an opensided silage storage building approx. 100',a ground rod is driven and the neutral is bonded to the can once again,all neutrals and grounds are on the same bar.

Again this could be permitted by 250.32(B)(2)

Originally posted by jap2525:
should a main disconnecting means been installed in the main lug panel even though the 100 amp main breaker is in the chicken house?

A means to disconnect the ungrounded conductors is required at the silage storage building but it may not need a main breaker.

If there are less than 6 breakers installed in the 12 circuit 100 amp panel it would be code compliant.

Bob

[ August 23, 2004, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[jap2525]

Re: farm panel

Thanks for your reply Bob,That makes sense,I just hear so much about (as soon as you are past the main panel or circuit breaker under the meter that the neutral and ground must be kept seperate) but this is not always the case.There are many times when a ground wire is not pulled with a feeder and is still compliant as in the case of a subpanel fed from a main panel.Would it be safe to say that a subpanel fed from the silage to a pump house could also be 3 wire with the neutral acting as the grounding conductor if sized properly? The reason I ask is because if I were to do the install on a job like this I would have installed a ground wire in each of the feeders past the service main and keep them seperate from the neutral in all cases but I probably wouldnt have got the job if quoted because of the price difference to the customer.