Federal pacific

pedro1200 said:
Do federal pacific panel and breakers still have a UL listing?Is there a way to find out its current status?
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UL listing is "applied" as things leave the factory. Once somethings leaves the factory there is nothing you can do to change a listing. However, you can field modify a device so it no longer meets its listing requirements, or you can misapply it in a manner inconsistent with its listing.

Federal Pacific got in trouble, almost 40 years ago, with its UL listing on a 2 pole plug on breaker. I have never heard of any of their other products being identified as not meeting their listing requirements.
 
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UL actually took the extra step of RESCINDING the UL listing of the Stab-lok breakers and panels. So they are indeed no longer UL listed. This is what put them out of business.

There is a company, Connecticut Electric, who makes an aftermarket replacement breaker for FPE Stab-lok panels. It is UL “Classified”, which is slightly different from being “listed”, in that it can only be used in listed panels that it was tested with. CE tested them in MOST of the common FPE panels that were sold before the UL listing was rescinded, but not all, so you have to check (although nobody actually does). There are strong opinions on the inspection community as to the CE versions being no better than the originals though.

The thing is, many insurance companies are now refusing to underwrite homes with FPE panels in them, regardless of the breakers installed. So it’s often a waste of money to try to keep using an existing FPE panel, you are throwing good money after bad.
 
Jraef said:
UL actually took the extra step of RESCINDING the UL listing of the Stab-lok breakers and panels. So they are indeed no longer UL listed. This is what put them out of business.

There is a company, Connecticut Electric, who makes an aftermarket replacement breaker for FPE Stab-lok panels. It is UL “Classified”, which is slightly different from being “listed”, in that it can only be used in listed panels that it was tested with. CE tested them in MOST of the common FPE panels that were sold before the UL listing was rescinded, but not all, so you have to check (although nobody actually does). There are strong opinions on the inspection community as to the CE versions being no better than the originals though.

The thing is, many insurance companies are now refusing to underwrite homes with FPE panels in them, regardless of the breakers installed. So it’s often a waste of money to try to keep using an existing FPE panel, you are throwing good money after bad.
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That’s exactly why im asking… thanks
 
Jraef said:
This is what put them out of business.
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I think the company actually was split and sold before that happened, a Canadian and US split, the Canadian remained popular in for years, up until recently you could buy StabLok breakers at Homedepot in Canada made by the same company that makes square D. You could until recently have them shipped to your door here in the US (CSA listed). The US parent company is the one that had the bad breakers.
Jraef said:
The thing is, many insurance companies are now refusing to underwrite homes with FPE panels in them, regardless of the breakers installed. So it’s often a waste of money to try to keep using an existing FPE panel, you are throwing good money after bad.
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This is true, they also now ask if you have any interior aluminum wiring no matter how old and they ask about knob and tube wiring.

EDIT: I guess you still can
 
The Stab-Lok line was bounced around to several other companies after FPE's demise. Challenger was selling the Stab-Lok line along side their "C" line in the mid to late 80's. Eventually Schneider took it on and was selling the line in Canada. Obviously once the the other companies took over they were able to get the products listed again.
 
Jraef said:
UL actually took the extra step of RESCINDING the UL listing of the Stab-lok breakers and panels.
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But that would apply from that point forward. I don't think you can rescind previously listed products.

So now you have to deal with existing listed panels and breakers from a third party. Are insurance companies accepting this?
 
jim dungar said:
But that would apply from that point forward. I don't think you can rescind previously listed products.

So now you have to deal with existing listed panels and breakers from a third party. Are insurance companies accepting this?
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Insurance companies will not accept anything that is marked Federal Pacific or FPE including fusible switches.
 
To anyone repairing extending or evaluating an FPE system, under any of their various names read:

Published in: IEEE Access ( Volume: 6)
Page(s): 10062 - 10068
Date of Publication: 07 February 2018
Electronic ISSN: 2169-3536
DOI: 10.1109/ACCESS.2018.2803298

1. Molded-Case Circuit Breakers and Circuit Breaker Enclosures, Underwriters Laboratories Standard UL489, 2016 and prior editions.
2. “Exxon buys a scandal along with a company,” Business Week, p. 66, Jul. 1980.
3. J. Aronstein and R. Lowry, “Estimating fire losses associated with circuit breaker malfunction,” IEEE Trans. Ind. Appl., vol. 48, no., Jan./Feb. 2012, p. 45.
4. U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, Recall No. 14–134, Mar. 2014.
5. U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, Release No. 07–036, Nov. 2006.
6. J. Aronstein. ( Nov. 2017 ). Hazardous FPE Circuit Breakers and Panels. [online]. [Online]. Available: http://www.fpe-info.org/
7. J. Palmer, Report on First Meeting of Circuit Breaker Follow Up Program Ad Hoc Committee, W. Camp, Ed. GTE Sylvania, Jun. 1979.
8. R. W. Eckert, “Molded case circuit breakers—Oldies but goodies,” Elect. Construction Maintenance, Apr. 1982.
9. J. M. Maza-Ortega, E. Acha, S. García, and A. Gómez-Expósito “Overview of power electronics technology and applications in power generation transmission and distribution,” J. Mod. Power Syst. Clean Energy, vol. 5, no. 4, pp. 499–514, Jul. 2017.


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Note that one of the brands that worked poorly is.... Connecticut Electric.
The entire Stab Lok world is rotten: from the buses to the stabs to the breakers to the replacements.

===============
Insurance likes simple. And what age and factory made good of bad Stab-Lok breakers is just too hard for anybody to track,
especially insurance looking for a pat answer.
 

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FPE made lots of good products besides their StabLoc panels and breakers. But everyone, especially insurance companies and home inspectors, uses a broad bush and paints everything one color. So we are left with the current consensus of replace all FPE.
 
Every manufacturer has had bad batches and recalls. The BIGGER problem with 1970's is it was the hey day of inferior aluminum alloys, they used them in lugs, busbars, and wire. The inferior AL can overheat any breaker even new ones.
 
this is what they wrote. All I see is replacing the panel or since it doesn’t show any signs of danger at this time all you can do is thermo image it to make sure no hot spots are available, proper torquingof all connections and check for loose connections or oxidation. Any thoughts??????
 

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Looks like a inspection report, pretty common 3 phase panel, I would IR image the panel and look for any 'wiring deficiencies', like oversize breakers, missing k/o's, Then wait for what their insurance carrier asks for.
 
I love how the inspectors wrote "We observed what appears to be..." Almost as useful as our sales reps going "These guys showed up on the over-consumption report with a value of x. Could you give me another reading, using the historical database written by that exact same tool over the same time frame, to verify?"
 
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