Feeder to Hottub

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boptrop

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Been looking at rules governing wiring of hot tubs. Cust. has a hot tub that requires a 40A circuit with neutral.

Looking at installing a 40A 2P breaker and feeding a self-enclosed GFCI 2P50 to provide the GFCI protection and disconnect. (40A2PGFCI is hard to come by)

Intending on using UF from panel to disconnect/GFCI.

My question would be: is UF allowed to be used (will be outside under mobile home, some exposed to weather).

As I read feeders are required to be in conduit....per 680.25 (2002) In this installation I see no feeder only branch ckt.?

Anyone know the reason for the 6' limit on LFMC or LFNMC to the tub itself?
 
I don't see UF as compliant as the code allows nm cable in the interior of a dwelling. If this is exposed to weather than it is not in the interior of a building
 
not following you...None of the UF cable will be inside the building (external panel). I didn't mention anything about NM cable? Why would it not be compliant?
 
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boptrop said:
not following you...None of the UF cable will be inside the building (external panel). I didn't mention anything about NM cable? Why would it not be compliant?
Click to expand...

What Dennis meant was that NM cable is allowed inside a dwelling to feed a tub or pool,
but no NM outside. Since UF cable is similar to NM and is mostly goverened by NM rules.

I think the UF wouldn't be allowed because it doesn't have an insulated EGC.
You could run the UF out of the panel, then install a junction box and transition to THWN in conduit to the tub disconnect.
 
boptrop said:
not following you...None of the UF cable will be inside the building (external panel). I didn't mention anything about NM cable? Why would it not be compliant?
Click to expand...

I may be mistaken but I think 680.25 is going to be the problem.

That section does not list UF as an acceptable wiring method.
 
iwire said:
I beleive the hot tub is outside so 680.42 tells us to go to parts I and II of 680 which brings us to 680.25.
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True, but it also says this:

(C) Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations. In the interior
of a one-family dwelling or in the interior of another
building or structure associated with a one-family dwelling,
any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this
Code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor
that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath of the
wiring method and not smaller than 12 AWG shall be permitted
to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control
loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub or a
packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly. Wiring to an
underwater luminaire shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33.
Click to expand...
 
680.25 Is titled "feeders" The circuit I am describing would not be a "feeder" would it? The only way it can be is if there are OCPDs in the hot-tub control package protecting the circuits derived for the various functions. I believe that would be streching it as I dont think the scope of the NEC goes that far into the Mfg. cabnet?

680.25(B) may apply however it uses the word "feeder" and uses the word Pool.... I would assume since they have defined various "pools' of water they are referring to actual "pools" only and not hot tubs...

Art. 680 certainly can be rewritten to be a little more clear with a little more definition.

Also- the hot tub and its "branch circuit" are all competely outside of the home...from service equipment to hot tub.
 
boptrop said:
680.25 Is titled "feeders" The circuit I am describing would not be a "feeder" would it? The only way it can be is if there are OCPDs in the hot-tub control package protecting the circuits derived for the various functions. I believe that would be streching it as I dont think the scope of the NEC goes that far into the Mfg. cabnet?

680.25(B) may apply however it uses the word "feeder" and uses the word Pool.... I would assume since they have defined various "pools' of water they are referring to actual "pools" only and not hot tubs...

Art. 680 certainly can be rewritten to be a little more clear with a little more definition.
Click to expand...

If your tub disconnect has a OCPD then it is a feeder. I believe you said it had a 50A GFCI breaker, so the conductors to the disc. are feeders.

The section for hot tubs says to refer to parts I & II of 680 for wiring. This section is for pools but you treat the hot tub as a pool for this purpose.
 
boptrop said:
680.25 Is titled "feeders" The circuit I am describing would not be a "feeder" would it? The only way it can be is if there are OCPDs in the hot-tub control package protecting the circuits derived for the various functions. I believe that would be streching it as I dont think the scope of the NEC goes that far into the Mfg. cabnet?
Click to expand...

For sure there are OCPDs in the tub but I am not sure I would call this a feeder or not.

680.25(B) may apply however it uses the word "feeder" and uses the word Pool.... I would assume since they have defined various "pools' of water they are referring to actual "pools" only and not hot tubs...
Click to expand...

680.42 is about hot tubs outside and it basically tells us to follow the rules for pools in parts I and II of article 680.
 
the breaker is 50A the branch circuit is rating is 40A the 50A breaker is not protecting the circuit it merely acts as a disconnect....
I can rearrange the circuit & put the GFCI breaker in the panel (40A) and put a pull out disconnect at the hot tub....its the same result....
 
I believe it does as it is not acting as an overcurrent protective device....


I can rearrange the circuit & put the GFCI breaker in the panel (40A) and put a pull out disconnect at the hot tub....its the same result....

Do you think UF would be ok in that situation?
 
@ Iwire

I should have said 680.42(C), which is what I posted later. What is your interpretation of that and how it would pertain to the OP?

(C) Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations. In the interior
of a one-family dwelling or in the interior of another
building or structure associated with a one-family dwelling,
any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this
Code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor
that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath of the
wiring method and not smaller than 12 AWG shall be permitted
to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control
loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub or a
packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly. Wiring to an
underwater luminaire shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33.
Click to expand...
 
I would say that would work...the question would be then, do I have to go to the panel inside the mobile home, or can I use the service equipment mounted to the exterior of the mobile home....
 
Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations.

Is what it is titled........and it falls under 680.42 Outdoor installations.....does it not?
 
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