FFS - Multiple breakers tripping at same time randomly for 2 years

[Fred B]

Mike Holt has a video that discussed his tracking down intermitant random AFCI tripping issues. Was very interesting and quite the process (not quick fix) and commentary interesting. I will try to locate to post, but maybe someone knows that video and can post it.
One comment was not to just throw in a new AFCI breaker as that won't tell you if it's the breaker or other underlying issue.

 

[synchro]

I like that idea. I had a power meter on it for a few months after I sheet metal screwed the neutral and it never tripped at all. I will find and reinstall that.

Can you post a picture of this screw connecting the neutral busbars? This sounds like a problematic connection.

 

[Moosifer]

So far today... electric drill does not trip any breakers when plugged into the outlets in the rooms that seem to trip most frequently.
None of us have been there to witness breakers tripping.

No rats in the attic and wires from combo panel to main subpanel are in pipe and all looks good. Lots of home runs and no j-boxes.
My guy did find a couple of nicks in neutral wires that may have possibly caused a neutral to ground short randomly. Still checking rooms.

The three main issue rooms all have usb outlets and so does the kitchen where they normally charge their phones but the kitchen doesn't trip..
Phones are plugged in master bedroom usb outlets at night.

 

[Moosifer]

synchro - picture attached. This is the beach so as ugly as it looks this panel is in much better shape than most. We get calls sometimes and find the bottom half of the panel is gone from rust. I believe that is my 1/4 self tapper with grips on the back of the head since it is not round.

 

[winnie]

If I read correctly, there is one 'normal' breaker that is tripping plus a bunch of AFCIs that are tripping.

Two wild-donkey guesses:
a) A real high current arcing fault on the normal breaker that trips it, and the arc signature takes AFCIs on other circuits
b) Some sort of impact or vibration at the wall where the panel is mounted, causing breakers to trip mechanically.

-Jon

 

[synchro]

If I read correctly, there is one 'normal' breaker that is tripping plus a bunch of AFCIs that are tripping.

Two wild-donkey guesses:
a) A real high current arcing fault on the normal breaker that trips it, and the arc signature takes AFCIs on other circuits
b) ...

To maybe help test this hypothesis, replacing the normal breaker with a dual-function AFCI/GFCI should make it more susceptible to tripping when such faults happen, but without having to reach such a high current level that a normal breaker would trip. Then if the dual function trips without others tripping it would be worthwhile to investigate the cause of this on that particular branch circuit (and even consider rewiring it just to eliminate it as a possible source of trouble).

 

[Moosifer]

Well, he cleaned up any nicked wires that may have been causing any neutral to ground or hot to ground issues. He thinks he did find a decent neutral to ground prospect. He also found a box with some loose push on connectors and he cleaned the neutral to neutral bar connection again and also said he would scrape a the box a bit under that connection to make sure it is bonded there also.

He did not remove the usb outlets since I found nothing online accusing them of afci trips.

I'll send a combo afci/gfci or 4 with him if we have to go back as well as a box of usb outlets that we have used before without issues.

So far I did not get any text messages of tripped breakers after paying someone to spend the better part of the day there again.

I can't find my panel monitor device that I know I brought home for personal use.

Thank you all for your input. Hopefully I have nothing to report any time soon....

 

[Moosifer]

Still tripping. Ordered a replacement 200a breaker for main subpanel.

 

[petersonra]

Still tripping. Ordered a replacement 200a breaker for main subpanel.

How is that going to help

 

[Jraef]

There is a known phenomenon with AFCI breakers tripping from HAM radio transmitters nearby. You can find videos of it all over, several of which have been posted here in the past. That does not explain the plain breaker tripping though, unless maybe it was a random unrelated even or there is a crossed circuit somewhere and when the AFCI trips, it causes a surge that the plain breaker sees as a short circuit.

My AFCI feeding my office trips wherever there is a power restoration after a loss. My theory on that is that all of the little SMPS feeding my electronics are having a combined inrush that the AFCI is interpreting as an arcing fault.

 

[Moosifer]

Meter panel 100a breaker feeding main subpanel replacement fixed the issue. I think it is safe to say that after 2.5 months.

 

[Phillip Land]

I'll get someone to test some plugs before pulling them this morning.

I'm having a hard time following your description of the setup. When you're screwing self tappers through the neutral bar into the cabinet, is it outside at the service equipment or inside at the panel? If it's inside then you are automatically bonding the equipment grounds and neutrals together

 

[Fiddling Fiddler]

When the circuit breakers randomly trip are the grouped together in the panel, or are they spread out ? If they are grouped together, GFCI breakers may be “cross talking” with each other. This would cause adjoining breakers to trip simply because they are next to each other. I have seen this in other brands of circuit breakers before, but they most frequently have this problem with AFCI circuit breakers.

I would also suggest using a recorder to monitor the electrical current when the circuit breakers trip. I would suspect there is some type of electrical interference causing this issue. For example, are you close to an AM radio broadcasting station ? Do you have a photo cell or timer activated fluorescent light, parking lot lights, or security lights in the vicinity ? Any military installations or airports in the vicinity?
just a few things to think about.

 

[Rdcowart]

Looking at the picture I would recommend replacing that meter main combo. With all that corrosion it could be causing the issue. Replacing the main breaker will not solve anything and then it appears that all the breakers are the wrong brand as well. I would install a whole home surge protector. If they are getting surges it can help dissipate them.