Fire Alarm conductors

[sparkle5]

Some what familar with the appropriate articles in 760 and 300 which govern the use of NPLF in buildings (plenums,ceilings,ect,) and the cable substitution hierarchy. However I have seen were the cable specified being a typical NPLF UTP 18 awg. was used under ground (shed. 40 pvc) to monitor the OSY with tamper and flow devices. I suspect and have even used THWN in these cases, but the prints generally call for the SLC (signaling line circuits) to use the NPLF UTP.
So now with a specific job at hand with myself calling the shots, my question if i have not missed some thing, in order be to code compliant with NEC 70 NEC 72 the best answer would be the rated conductor for a wet location. The underlining assumption being standard off the shelf UTP or STP fire alarm and comm cable are not labeled or listed for wet locations.???? thank you for any input

 

[iwire]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

Interesting question.

We would not bring the addressable loop SLC out to the OS&Y. We would stop that inside as close as possible install a monitor module and then run THWN out and back to the OS&Y.

We have cold temps in this area and most addressable loop fire alarm components are not rated for low temps.

 

[iwire]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

I am sorry I was thinking of an outside shutoff.

For indoor locations we just do not run underground, as a matter of fact one of the States we work in prohibits FA wiring underground at all.

 

[sparkle5]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

Thanks for the reply iwire, as an added note to the SLC loop what about the requirement that the monitor module be located within 3 feet of the the device. Unfortunately in the conflict of reality and theory practicality takes precedent as long as there is no great life safety issues.

 

[sparkle5]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

I may be getting to verbose but i wish to get as much conduit in the slab as possible and had never fully contemplated the FA and Comm side of the problem. Data being minimum 1.25" for two outlets, which would be nice not run in ceiling but personally would not want com lines in the slab or for that matter F.A. cable unless in was specifically intended for wet locations. This being for a major university.

 

[ron]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

Where is there a requirement for a "monitor module be located within 3 feet"? Is it your project's specification? I do not think it is a code requirement in NFPA 72

 

[sparkle5]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

I suspect now after looking for such a requirement that in fact the AHJ decided in this case that the monitor modules for the tamper and flow which I had originally put remote from the devices (mechanical room 20 away: the single gang bell next to the OS&Y seemed to small) should be in close proximity, and I thought he implied that this was specific requirement. However researching for such a rule I did not see any, thank you Ron, I stand corrected.

 

[peter d]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

Originally posted by iwire:
as a matter of fact one of the States we work in prohibits FA wiring underground at all. [/QB]

Gee Bob, I wonder what state you're talking about? :roll:

[inside joke]

Dumb question: What's an OS&Y?

 

[kiloamp7]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

OS & Y = Outside screw & yoke.
A common type of mechanically operated valve in fire sprinkler protection systems.
Right?

 

[iwire]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

Originally posted by peter d:

Dumb question: What's an OS&Y?

Not a dumb question at all.

Open Stem & Yoke valve.

Very commonly used on sprinkler systems, the one in the photo is closed as the brass stem is almost out of site.

In the open position the brass stem would be sticking out quite a way.

The yoke is the two metal sides between the body and the wheel.

A tamper switch is installed on the yoke to supervise that the valve is left in the open position.

[ January 18, 2005, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

My first response to this thread I was thinking PIV instead of OS&Y

PIV - Post Indicator Valve.

These shut off a sprinkler system from outside the building and they also get tamper switches.

The connections to this valve are the only FA wiring we typically run underground.

[ January 18, 2005, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[peter d]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

Thanks Bob. Now I know the proper names for those.

 

[iwire]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

Originally posted by peter d:
So what happens when the tamper switch is activated? Does is set off the FA system, or just a trouble indication?

It used to just put the fire panel into 'trouble' now the panels come with a 'supervisory' condition.

Either way if the valves anywhere in the sprinkler system are closed the building occupants will be informed.

Some FDs monitor for troubles and supervisory some don't.

Many FDs (in this area) are going to 16 zone radio master boxes in place of the old (and cool ) or is it a pull station (fast response) We can also send them supervisory signals, whatever they want.

I did a supermarket that uses 12 of the 16 available master box ones, a bit of overkill IMO.

Originally posted by peter d:
Makes sense, as the OS&Y valves are usually in the sprinkler main room or area.

A sprinkler room we will go overhead to as it is in the building. The PIV will be outside somewhere and to that we must run underground.

[ January 19, 2005, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[peter d]

Re: Fire Alarm conductors

Thanks again Bob.

You know what I'm used to, but I'm curious about Mass as I've seen different things done..

Are you allowed to use unprotected (no conduit)FA cable? I know that Attleboro, Seekonk and a few others don't allow the cable to be used in "exposed" areas.

 

[John in AR]

...what about the requirement that the monitor module be located within 3 feet of the the device....

I believe that 'three-foot' rule only applies if it's not supervised, as in a normal addressable relay module.

I could be wrong, and it could also be different in your jurisdiction. Fire alarm is a very location-specific thing.

(edit - I didn't even look at the date before replying; I didn't realize this question was almost two years old.... sorry about that.)