ksmith846
Senior Member
- Location
- Port St Lucie, Florida
Question is: where could I start with trying to get Parts and Smarts Fire Alarm packages aboilished.
Here in my area, as I would assume is the case most everywhere, allows State EC's to purchase Parts and Smarts from whichever company may already own the existing Fire Alarm System.......IE a tenant buildout in an existing office building which already has a Fire Alarm company who holds the UL Certification on the main system in the building.
Example of this would be a doctor's office buildout in an existing office complex where there is an existing master system owned and certified by Fire Alarm company ABC. I am typically required by the bidding GC's to carry the number for the Fire Alarm in my quote for the buildout. I have 4 options at this point dependant upon if there is a UL Certificate on the existing house system.
First if there is no UL in place I can quote the added fire alarm equipment as a turnkey install with my preferred contractor and I can provide a very competitive price and usually hang onto the FA contract with my Electrical Contract.
Second if there is a UL in place I can quote the project Turnkey and pay the UL holder to recertify the system after we are finished.
Third if there is a UL in place and the Holder has an agreement with the building owner to only use their parts to add to the existing system, I can get a Parts and Smarts price from them which includes everything except for supply of wiring, installation of system or Permit.
The local AHJs require that if you are not a State Licensed EC or a State Licensed Fire Alarm Contractor, you cannot pull a permit to install any Fire Alarm systems. I have multiple county licenses which are all registered with the state which gives me an ER license with the state, but ERs are not allowed to permit or install Fire Alarm Systems.....this I can and will fix as I will just go and get my State License.
Therefore my fourth option is to hire the existing systems contractor to provide a complete turnkey package......
Even still I do not know why it is allowed for a company that has a system on someone's property to bail out on the liabilty of permitting and installing their own equipment.
Here' my latest example and the reason I want to try and change things here in Florida.
Burger joint in an existing strip mall complex which has a FA system with UL. We quoted a turnkey stand alone system with contacts to be connected to the existing house system excluding UL recertification of the existing system......$10K job quote
Prior to contract I am informed that I have to use the existing contractor for parts and smarts. Again with this setup I would be required to pull the permit and install the system which puts all of the liabilty on me for the future.....
I call for the price and ask them to give me a turnkey price (again as I am not State Licensed I cannot permit this)......they tell me they are too busy to install the system and will only provide a parts and smarts price for the project.......now I am essentially pushed out of getting this project. Then on top of all of that they send over a price for the P&S package and it's $9500 so once the wire, labor and permit are factored in the dang system costs over $15K.
Let's forget that I cannot pull the permit or install due to my license classification. Why should the UL holding FA contractor be allowed to only sell plans and parts. If thier system is in the building and thier parts have to be used they should have to install it and have all of the liabilty.
It's win win for them.......make profit on the Parts....get paid for plans.....get paid for recertification.....and on top of that all they also are charging for the labor profit they would have made if they installed it.
The EC in this case has all of the permitiing and liabilty while the FA contractor makes all of the $$.
Where would I start with trying to get this changed.....
Here in my area, as I would assume is the case most everywhere, allows State EC's to purchase Parts and Smarts from whichever company may already own the existing Fire Alarm System.......IE a tenant buildout in an existing office building which already has a Fire Alarm company who holds the UL Certification on the main system in the building.
Example of this would be a doctor's office buildout in an existing office complex where there is an existing master system owned and certified by Fire Alarm company ABC. I am typically required by the bidding GC's to carry the number for the Fire Alarm in my quote for the buildout. I have 4 options at this point dependant upon if there is a UL Certificate on the existing house system.
First if there is no UL in place I can quote the added fire alarm equipment as a turnkey install with my preferred contractor and I can provide a very competitive price and usually hang onto the FA contract with my Electrical Contract.
Second if there is a UL in place I can quote the project Turnkey and pay the UL holder to recertify the system after we are finished.
Third if there is a UL in place and the Holder has an agreement with the building owner to only use their parts to add to the existing system, I can get a Parts and Smarts price from them which includes everything except for supply of wiring, installation of system or Permit.
The local AHJs require that if you are not a State Licensed EC or a State Licensed Fire Alarm Contractor, you cannot pull a permit to install any Fire Alarm systems. I have multiple county licenses which are all registered with the state which gives me an ER license with the state, but ERs are not allowed to permit or install Fire Alarm Systems.....this I can and will fix as I will just go and get my State License.
Therefore my fourth option is to hire the existing systems contractor to provide a complete turnkey package......
Even still I do not know why it is allowed for a company that has a system on someone's property to bail out on the liabilty of permitting and installing their own equipment.
Here' my latest example and the reason I want to try and change things here in Florida.
Burger joint in an existing strip mall complex which has a FA system with UL. We quoted a turnkey stand alone system with contacts to be connected to the existing house system excluding UL recertification of the existing system......$10K job quote
Prior to contract I am informed that I have to use the existing contractor for parts and smarts. Again with this setup I would be required to pull the permit and install the system which puts all of the liabilty on me for the future.....
I call for the price and ask them to give me a turnkey price (again as I am not State Licensed I cannot permit this)......they tell me they are too busy to install the system and will only provide a parts and smarts price for the project.......now I am essentially pushed out of getting this project. Then on top of all of that they send over a price for the P&S package and it's $9500 so once the wire, labor and permit are factored in the dang system costs over $15K.
Let's forget that I cannot pull the permit or install due to my license classification. Why should the UL holding FA contractor be allowed to only sell plans and parts. If thier system is in the building and thier parts have to be used they should have to install it and have all of the liabilty.
It's win win for them.......make profit on the Parts....get paid for plans.....get paid for recertification.....and on top of that all they also are charging for the labor profit they would have made if they installed it.
The EC in this case has all of the permitiing and liabilty while the FA contractor makes all of the $$.
Where would I start with trying to get this changed.....