Fire Damage

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elvis_931

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Tennessee
I went to look at a house today that had caught fire. Two story house. the fir burnt one room pretty good and two other rooms a little. The room with the most damage is the master bedroom , also where the fuse panel is locate. 90% of the homeruns are burnt. The rest of the house except 1 room has smoke and heat damage. All the wiring needs replaced, even the wire that is not obviously damaged. I told the guy that if I did the job I would not just replace the burnt wire, but all of the wire, boxes, devices, main fuse to breaker box, etc. Basically like wirnig a new house from scratch. He said he wanted to salvage the stuff in the room that was not so bad. Not a good idea I think. If he wants it done my way, I think I will do it 2 men @ $40.00/hr + mat. I think he is going to ask another guy what he will do it for. I know the other guy will probably do it for $50.00/hr, but may try to salvage some existing mat. Any comments?
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
In your post, this is what struck me like lightning!!! What is the usual going rate in your area? This number seems extremely low.
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Most in this area charge $40-50/hr. I live in a small town. Hard to charge more and get any work with others charging $50.00. Most everyone here does good work, so quality is about the same across the board between contractors. Hard to sell quality work at a higher price when quality work for lower price is common.
 
I will charge them a "fair" amount of $/hr and do what the HO ask. Just remember to put that in the contract. Just in case the wires what was not replaced goes bad.
 
elvis_931 said:
If he wants it done my way, I think I will do it 2 men @ $40.00/hr + mat.
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Is this $40 pr. man hr. ? Meaning that each hour that you and a helper work that you bill $80.

What is your mark up on materials?
 
growler said:
Is this $40 pr. man hr. ? Meaning that each hour that you and a helper work that you bill $80.

What is your mark up on materials?
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Yes $40/man/hr. I will pay 2 guys $13/hr ea. They will do all the work. I mark material up 20%.
 
QES said:
I will charge them a "fair" amount of $/hr and do what the HO ask. Just remember to put that in the contract. Just in case the wires what was not replaced goes bad.
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You can't just do what the homeowner asks for. They know nothing about electrical work. You must do what is right for this particular job. If that means replacing all of the wire, replace all of the wire. If it means testing the integrity of the existing wire, then test it. We are the professionals in this trade and we can't have HO's or GC telling us what is the best and safest repair method. A contract clause as suggested, would not absolve you of any liability if the wiring were to fail again and cause damage.
 
"doing what the HO wants" can only go so far. Part of doing business is doing what is legal first then come profit.
 
elvis_931 said:
Yes $40/man/hr. I will pay 2 guys $13/hr ea. They will do all the work. I mark material up 20%.
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That not all that bad for residential constuction in that area. It's very hard to do service calls for that type of money because you have to many hours that you can't bill for. And a good service tech. will cost $25 or $30 and hour.
 
Just to bring back the other half of the OP, why must all of the wiring be replaced? Unless the damage is enough to gut the house, which means wiring anew from the ground up as a new house, including the service, the genuinely undamaged stuff should be okay.

Now, I do agree that (1) absolutely, any wire the least questionable should be replaced to the next box, (2) all the devices can be replaced, which would also assure clean and tight terminations, and (3) everything remaining should be inspected and documented.

If heat, smoke, and/or water damage is enough to re-drywall half of the house or more, the homeowner himself, as well as the local building department, should insist that the entire house be gutted. Smoke damage includes long-term smoke smells, especially in the summer.

I have experienced this from both sides, and it can be more economical to gut and wire like new work than fish and wire like old work. Plus, the entire house can be re-insulated like new construction, plumbing updated if necessary, etc. The smoke probably infiltrated the HVAC system, too.

Questions: is "the guy" the homeowner, insurance adjuster, general contractor, etc? Who's pocket do these decisions affect? By all means, your judgement as the electrician carries a lot of weight and responsibility, so do not leave anything unchecked. Oh, what started the fire?
 
don't forget that all the old wire you pull out isn't garbage. take it to the scrap yard. keep whatever it costs you in time to take the wire in, and deduct the rest off the customers bill. it'll most likely only be a couple hundred dollars, but the customer will appreciate you being fair and trying to help them save $.
 
A business man in the area bought the house and is going to rent it out. I am no sure I would trust the condition of the old wire. It did not start the fire I was told. The people living there started it somehow. If I start picking and choosing what stays and what gets replaced, where does my responsibility to bring whatever I touch up to code start and stop, since I will have to touch every wire and device in the house.
 
elvis_931 said:
If I start picking and choosing what stays and what gets replaced, where does my responsibility to bring whatever I touch up to code start and stop, since I will have to touch every wire and device in the house.
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It's not that simple, even the owner is not going to decide how much of the structure gets replaced. He may think that he wishes to save some of the house but this is normally up to the building department ( inspector ).

At present this house is condemned ( not habitable ). Normally the contractor will get with the building inspector on site to determine how much of the structure needs to be replaced. It's not just fire and heat damage anymore. Water damage can be a big one because of black mold.
If they even think that the sheet rock got soaked it will probably need replaced.

It's really hard to determine how much of the electrical to replace before it's gutted to whatever level that is required. If you need to replace 90% of the wire and the place is gutted it's normally faster and cheaper just to replace everything.

This is probably the old ungrounded cable with the fabric sheath anyway. This stuff doesn't fare well in water.
 
quogueelectric said:
in our area get 15 per hour plus lunch. They line up 100 deep at 7-11s and work like dogs for 8 hrs.
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Sheep. Or better yet - lemmings. Same goes for those who would charge $40 an hour on a time and material basis, cause $15 an hour is what the company owner will end up making after he pays for all his expenses to get this job done. My opinion is I don't care what part of the country you live in, you should ought to dump the by the hour thinking and learn how to flat rate bid. If you lived in Burma, I would pat you on the back and tell you how good you are doing. But you don't, you live in the United States and price yourselves like you live in Burma. I bet your gasoline costs close to $3 a gallon or even more. And do they lower the costs of new 8 cyl 1 ton vans in your area because buyers aren't willing to pay as much around there for a new van as they are in other parts of the country? This is all sort of new to me, I had no idea that liability insurance rates were dependant on what part of the country you live in, I thought they were a result of the type of work you do, and your past record. Same for income tax, I never knew there were different rates for different states. Or workmans comp. Or the cost of filing cabinets. Or the company's computers. Possibly the cost of a yellow page is less there than in the city, and so also your company building, I admit, but not enough to offset your low rates. Pardon me if this post comes across a bit insulting, I am not trying to insult anybody, just trying to get the sleeping to wake up.
 
macmikeman said:
If you lived in Burma, I would pat you on the back and tell you how good you are doing. But you don't, you live in the United States and price yourselves like you live in Burma.And do they lower the costs of new 8 cyl 1 ton vans in your area because buyers aren't willing to pay as much around there for a new van as they are in other parts of the country?
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The Burmese people can no longer afford to call their country Buma ( They would have to pay royalties to Buma Shave for the use of the name ). They are know know as "The Union of Myanmar", let a shaving cream company try to use that name.

A new one ton van probably cost about the same in Myanmar as it does here so most of their electrical contractors ride bicycles. I here that business is expected to improve once they get electricity.

The Burmese contractors did try flat rate priceing but it did them little good as most of the country doesn't have electricity and there were few customers.

Once again the law of supply and demand prevails.
 
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