Fire station

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The barn where the power company stores its' line trucks also has a toilet room, a sink, refrig, range and even a couch and a few chairs. This is not a dwelling. It's a vehicle storage building.
 
Look, I am not saying there is good reason to classify a fire station or any of the other examples as dwelling units. :smile:

What I am saying is that per the NEC definition many fire stations are dwelling units

They may well be other things as well but you will not convince me a fire station (at least the ones I have seen) do not fit the NEC definition of dwelling unit.

Many single family homes include built in vehicle storage areas and the occupants might even run a business out the home as well ..... regardless that home remains a dwelling unit. (As far as the NEC)
 
wbalsam1 said:
The barn where the power company stores its' line trucks also has a toilet room, a sink, refrig, range and even a couch and a few chairs. This is not a dwelling. It's a vehicle storage building.
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Was it designed for people to live in or store equipment?

Fire stations, at least many of the ones in this area, are designed as a place to live everyday.

They will have storage and office space but part of it will have showers, sleeping quarters and a kitchen. :smile:
 
I'm trying to make a talking point about the use of the phrase "single unit" in the definition of dwelling unit. I'm advancing the "logical" point that typically those elements that are contained within dwellings, i.e., kitchens, and sleeping and toileting areas, are generally contained within a single unit and not within another space designated as something else, like, for example, a kitchen range at the back end or side of a fire truck bay.:smile:
 
This has never come up with us and we've done a number of fire stations over the years.

In thinking about it now, I would say the living areas more closely resemble a guest room or suite. I would lean that way if an interpretation was required.

We have gotten receptacle spacing in kitchen as in a dwelling along with GFCI recept's.

I have not given sleeping rooms a thought with regards to receptacles. There is not much wall space in them anyway after the built in cabinets are installed. Just remembering off the top of my head, I believe the designer had plenty of receptacles.
 
wbalsam1 said:
I'm trying to make a talking point about the use of the phrase "single unit" in the definition of dwelling unit. I'm advancing the "logical" point that typically those elements that are contained within dwellings, i.e., kitchens, and sleeping and toileting areas, are generally contained within a single unit and not within another space designated as something else, like, for example, a kitchen range at the back end or side of a fire truck bay.:smile:
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I don't see how that has anything to do with the NEC definition.

Beyond that I don't see fire stations like you describe, not saying they don't exist just not what I have in my mind when I think fire station. The Kitchen is not in the truck bay, often the kitchen and sleeping areas are located upstairs and are quite 'home like'.

In areas that use volunteer firefighters I can see calling the building a garage, but in my area 99% of the towns have full time firefighters that live at the station for days at a time.

Just like Roy and Johnny. :D

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In New York, the power company line truck garage is S-2 Low Hazard storage. A firehouse like iwire depicts could be a S-1/R-2 where the sleeping arrangements are similar to a dormitory. Not an R-3, because even though the building is under single management and jointly occupied, it is not occupied by a single family group.:smile:
 
Many of you are bringing up all of my concerns. The sleeping units in this station are single bed units much like a dormitory and are seperated from the rest of the building, just as someone alread described, by the apparatus bay. So basically you have office / garage / living quarters.

I was leaning towards AFCI's when I posted the question. Part of the problem is, we have never done one in town before, the four that are already here were built when it was still under the counties control.

I'm thinking that I need the arch plan checker to look at it first and see if he can better define these areas for me. To justify some of my questions, I would just like to say that fire stations are not even mentioned in the building code though they do talk about jails, dorms, institutions, etc. I can't even make it fall under any of those really. I am sure that it is going to end up being a mixed use though.
 
wbalsam1 said:
In New York, the power company line truck garage is S-2 Low Hazard storage. A firehouse like iwire depicts could be a S-1/R-2 where the sleeping arrangements are similar to a dormitory. Not an R-3, because even though the building is under single management and jointly occupied, it is not occupied by a single family group.:smile:
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But now your jumping out of the NEC.

All my point has been is that to the NEC it would be a dwelling unit.
 
wbalsam1 said:
If the Fire station had a single unit it would be one thing, but unless there's an apartment-style single unit, than sleeping and eating spaces are incidental to the primary use which is the storage of fire trucks in bays with at-hand availability to roll the trucks in response to an emergency. It is possible to have a dwelling unit within a building containing S-1, but that would be classified as a mixed occupancy and fire resistance ratings would come into play.
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Show me the words in the NEC that say this. If the conditions of the occupancy comply with the definition in Article 100, then it is a dwelling unit and nothing else changes that.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Show me the words in the NEC that say this. If the conditions of the occupancy comply with the definition in Article 100, then it is a dwelling unit and nothing else changes that.
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Are you putting forth the "logic" that the elements of a dwelling unit can be spread out throughout portions of a mixed occupancy building so randomly, - such as the bathroom next to a fire truck bay, the kitchen in the rear of the building down a long hall, and the sleeping room(s) upstairs and the living room in the back past the turnout gear room, - and this is all contained somehow as a dwelling "single unit" yet contained within a broader space called a fire station?
I am trying to focus on the precision of the use of "single unit". To have elements of this "single unit" scattered all over 2 units (namely the fire station and the dwelling "unit") destroys the concept of "single unit".:smile:
 
wbalsam1 said:
I'm trying to make a talking point about the use of the phrase "single unit" in the definition of dwelling unit. I'm advancing the "logical" point that typically those elements that are contained within dwellings, i.e., kitchens, and sleeping and toileting areas, are generally contained within a single unit and not within another space designated as something else, like, for example, a kitchen range at the back end or side of a fire truck bay.:smile:
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I see it as the same as an apartment above a commerical space and in many cases that is exactly the layout of the station.
 
wbalsam1 said:
Are you putting forth the "logic" that the elements of a dwelling unit can be spread out throughout portions of a mixed occupancy building so randomly, - such as the bathroom next to a fire truck bay, the kitchen in the rear of the building down a long hall, and the sleeping room(s) upstairs and the living room in the back past the turnout gear room, - and this is all contained somehow as a dwelling "single unit" yet contained within a broader space called a fire station?
I am trying to focus on the precision of the use of "single unit". To have elements of this "single unit" scattered all over 2 units (namely the fire station and the dwelling "unit") destroys the concept of "single unit".:smile:
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I have never seen a fire station where the bathroom for the living area was remote from the living area. The kitchen, bunk room(s), living room and bathroom are grouped together in every fire station that I have ever been in.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I see it as the same as an apartment above a commerical space and in many cases that is exactly the layout of the station.
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That being the case, it would be a mixed occupancy building with the provisions of the NEC applying to each. For example, if the kitchen is within the dwelling unit then 210.8(A)(6) would apply. Fire resistance ratings would also apply between the occupancies. :)
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I have never seen a fire station where the bathroom for the living area was remote from the living area. The kitchen, bunk room(s), living room and bathroom are grouped together in every fire station that I have ever been in.
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I would be able to show you quite a few around here, but they're not mixed occupancies, though.
 
I always get a kick out of when it is time to test the 'Fire Alarm System' at a new station,

Central Dispatch will call after a while, "Do we need to send someone over there ?? " .
 
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