Fires

[gar]

170827-1544 EDT

This morning talking with my corn man, he is a retired Ann Arbor fireman, I ask him what is the origin of most fires.

Arson fires are generally obvious because the homes burn very quickly. These are not common.

Most accidental (non-delibert) fires start in the furnace or kitchen areas. Kitchen is mostly a result of grease. Smoking and furniture are another area. In his experience electrical as a starting point is quite uncommon.

Something that is clearly electrical, a pole transformer, is fought with foam.

They want electrical power removed before entering. Also on significant fires they won't enter without masks. The products of combustion are too dangerous. Plastic products are the major source of these dangerous gases, and homes are full of plastic products. Polyurethane being a big problem.

In our town low income areas get a lot of fire and/or building inspections.

Our response time is in the maximum range of 2 to 3 minutes.

So here most fires are not blamed on electrical.

.

 

[hbiss]

I agree. Further, I would say that a large percentage of those that they do blame on electrical are because they can't find any other reason.

-Hal

 

[102 Inspector]

I have been with the department for 34 years. When we do an investigation, we normally will have three (3) different people investigate without talking to each other during the review. Then they compare notes. If a cause cannot be found, we list it as undetermined and let the insurance companies hire the expensive labs to come in an do further testing. I feel that electrical is too quickly blamed for some fires, however there have been a couple that clearly were electrical in origin. It comes down to the investigative skills of the person doing the review. I have seen reports create havoc with insurance companies if a different cause was later found then that was reported.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I heard a story from one investigator, about another investigator, about a fire being blamed on electrical, when told that he needed to find another cause, he became quite up set and asked how the person who told him that would know, well because there hasn't been any electrical to that building in 20 years.

 

[ramsy]

I have been with the department for 34 years. ..the insurance companies hire the expensive labs to come in an do further testing

It was my understanding bad-faith insurers deny claims first, and only pay for more testing if Fire Marshals don't blame electrical hacks, and the losing property owners fight the voided claims in court.

 

[mbrooke]

Unless the fire has causalities, no one is going to go in with a fine tooth comb. Electrical takes the blame as its the easiest to blame.

 

[jumper]

I heard a story from one investigator, about another investigator, about a fire being blamed on electrical, when told that he needed to find another cause, he became quite up set and asked how the person who told him that would know, well because there hasn't been any electrical to that building in 20 years.

Priceless.

 

[tkb]

In MA, the news shows usually say the fires are electrical even while they are burning.

 

[curt swartz]

I heard a story from one investigator, about another investigator, about a fire being blamed on electrical, when told that he needed to find another cause, he became quite up set and asked how the person who told him that would know, well because there hasn't been any electrical to that building in 20 years.

I'll bet the AFCI manufactures would still try to claim that if the building had AFCI breakers the fire would not have happened. According to SquareD, Eaton, Siemens and GE AFCI's will prevent all fires even if they are not energized.

 

[kwired]

Unless the fire has causalities, no one is going to go in with a fine tooth comb. Electrical takes the blame as its the easiest to blame.

I kind of agree. Fire investigators usually have an idea of where the fire started, if there is wiring in that area and they don't have anything else that is obvious they will say it must have been electrical in nature - that don't mean they know how to look at those electrical components and determine exactly what went wrong though. and they aren't spending a lot of money on expensive lab testing if there isn't any casualties, just isn't worth the expense.

House fire I got involved with the refurbishing a few years ago was determined to be electrical in nature, though the investigator from the fire marshal office did not give any more exact cause then that. The place he determined where the fire started did have a receptacle outlet somewhere in that proximity. When I observed it it was somewhat pulled apart, firemen may have done so or even the investigator, but there was no sign of an outlet box at all so it either was completely burned or there never was one, IDK. My best guess was a "glowing connection" probably occurred on this receptacle and eventually ignited the structure somehow. Proper outlet box usually contains these - so is still possible there maybe wasn't one.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I used to meet the FD investigators at the scenes and give my opinion and we go along pretty well. Just before he retired he introduced me to his replacement, who was an older guys and actually a transfer. We met at a scene and he was claiming electrical and I said no I don't believe it was electrical, myself and the other investigator figured that it was a pump for the fish tank. He said ok, still electrical, I said no, wouldn't that fall under electrical appliance? It's not bad wiring, it's bad equipment. He finally agreed, but I've never been on an investigation since.

If you look at the annual fire report, it really doesn't make any sense. If you really read it, there are more causes than there are fires.

The reason I was pushing for the fish tank pump, is if you have any more fires and can point to that, we have recalls and UL that we can get involved and try to fix the problem. I'm guessing that no one is keeping that good of records.