First job blues

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southernboys

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Hey Guys finally get an opportunity to run my own truck on a full time basis . Think to myself sweet. Get to job im given two helpers that are as dense as they come. Tell them to block a stud they nail the block on the front of the stud. Then I get a list two pages long of things that have to be moved or changed. Now this is a townhome and is a relatively easy fixes. Just kinda frustrating to go behind some other guys. well get that stuff fixed move to rough and Im back . Heres my questions what were some of you guys first job like? Also how do you guys handle going behind a helper playing electrician. Also what about green helpers. How much time do you give em to catch on to the residential game. thanks
 
Re: First job blues

I had a helper told him to run a wire from a to b look back and the wire ran through the stair well. I mean you walk down the stairs and need to duck under ther the wire. A few days latter we are swaping out recpticals hot on a remodel. he comes to me and says ( note he has a voltage tester ) I can't put in the recptical we have a problem. I said what is it? he said only one set of wires has voltage. ( 2 14-2 in box) :D he had 1 year comercial exp. before we took him on.
 
Re: First job blues

Now, now we all started somewhere, if a green helper is what the boss gives you, you then must become a TEACHER, start out simple and don't expect the green helper to do what you can do. Although frustrating at times, you will know if he or she is cut out for electrical work, we all have our niche and not all are cut out for electrical work. I for one take great pride in the fact that a helper who learns from me will as the years go by and he or she becomes a journeyman or master electrician, will look back and thank me for been the TEACHER he so much needed in the beginning. I learned from two great journeyman one was nicknamed "Caveman", the other "Chalk Walls" these guys were and are IMO the best electricians around, not only because of their electrical knowledge but also the excellent ability to be TEACHERS. Southern my advise is become a TEACHER and you will see, with time the way people will start working and doing the things you expect of them, you have a great deal of knowledge why not give some and reap the rewards :cool: :cool: .

[ February 10, 2006, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]
 
Re: First job blues

Had one helper working with me, I tell him I need the fish tape.
"What's a fish tape?"
Fair enough: "It's shaped like a donut, it's bright orange with a black handle, and it's hanging in the back of the truck on the left."

He comes back after about ten minutes and hands me a four foot long wooden stick. Not even a fishing stick, just a run-of-the-mill, off-of-a-tree stick. I was so dumbfounded by how he made the transition from "fish tape" to "stick" I didn't even know how to correct him.

Similar to georgestolz's story: At rough-in we mark the load side of our GFCIs by putting the hot and neutral together under the same wire-nut. Explained this to a helper, and let him go to town. Come trim out I look at the first of what was to be about a dozen GFCIs and see the two black wires under one wire-nut, and the two whites under another wire-nut. :eek:

And since god knows I'm still at least a light shade of green, one from my first days:
Mechanic: "Go lay out the two-by-fours for that hallway."
He was talking about fluorescents. But I was thinking lumber so I spent the next 45 minutes scrounging up a couple dozen 2x4 boards and laying them out in the hall, wondering the whole time what neat electrical trick we were gonna use 'em for. :D

-John
 
Re: First job blues

What a good topic. Southern boys your not alone! I look back and the things I did as a 1st year app. and the things I see other newbs do is hilarious to me. It's so overwhelming when coming into the trade when you are forced to learn a million terms and tasks under serious time restraint and job pressure! But all of us that have stuck it out we can really be proud of it.

Basically when teaching someone new is to be positive and lead by example, slow down to show them something new. Guys that taught me by yelling and screaming still taught me but guess what, I never thanked them.

Give new guys a daily routine. Sounds like your wiring houses, so, at the start of the day on the ride to the job site give them a little run down of what is expected of them for the day as well as a few things you'd like them to learn throughout the week. long as your prepared you'll never be frustrated
 
Re: First job blues

I think I've started off as a new "b" 15 different times. Then have always moved into having somebody work for me. It's interesting to learn how many different way's you can say the exact same thing, it's just a matter of knowing which way the guy that's talking to you is saying it (make any sense?)

Anyway the funnest part is teaching. I have never (well not never) yelled at the new guy. I was a Nuclear Power Instructor in the Navy and well let's say it's very difficult not to yell at some guy getting ready to turn a switch that will blow something up if he doesn't do it right.But you just try and communicate and hope he learns. The biggest thing I learned is don't be afraid of the new "b" making a mistake. IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN! (Pardon my yelling :D ) As a matter of fact they learn more and better from making a mistake and fixing it than just about any other method of teaching.
 
Re: First job blues

Originally posted by 69boss302:
As a matter of fact they learn more and better from making a mistake and fixing it than just about any other method of teaching.
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Unless the mistake results in a mushroom cloud, ey? :D
 
Re: First job blues

There are many advantages to getting a green helper. You have a good idea of how much they know ( nothing ) so you know where the training starts, at the basics. The good thing is that they haven't learned a lot of bad wiring practices. I would rather have someone that's willing to learn than someone that's worked for a hack for two years. If you treat your helpers right they will remember you for years and if you're an A.H. they will remember that. Plus, you may end up working with or for that helper 10 years from now. It happens.
 
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Problem with total green is they cost your job projects hours that the rest of crew has to try and make up.You can't pay them what they are really worth for a long time.
 
Re: First job blues

When I was an App. 2, my super. gave me a section to run. (He had promised to put me "in over my head" every chance he got and was true to his word.)
The worst part was that I had a 30+ year electrician on my crew. He didn't like the idea of taking orders from an apprentice. I did the only thing I could do. I asked for the old timer's help. I told him that I couldn't do anything about the boss' choice to make me a foreman (?), but I needed him and so did the crew. Turns out, that was a fun job. The old man taught me a lot about the work and running crews. And I had a friend in the shop until he retired three years later.

Take a helper that WANTS to do this work under your wing. Be patient with him and teach him to do the work and to lead crews. Play the helper once in a while. Let him lead you once in a while (step in before he really screws up) and he will learn how hard your job is and hopefully how to ask the right questions and think for himself.
 
Re: First job blues

Take a helper that WANTS to do this work
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am I just getting cynical in my old age, or are these types a far more difficult find.
Journeymen in this area constantly tell of "newbies" that wake up in a new world every morning with no memory of what they were shown the day before. Good ones seem to be a rare as hen's teeth. Didn't seem to be that way 10-15 years ago...or, again, is that just me?
 
Re: First job blues

Originally posted by augie47:
Didn't seem to be that way 10-15 years ago...or, again, is that just me?
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I would say, that work ethics are not being taught to kid's. As a rule, most want top pay and give poor performance. Some are my gripes are:
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  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A cell phone cannot go unanswered</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Break time is a loosely translated</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"I forgot" is a valid excuse</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tools are not an investment</font>
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This new kid was once told to crawl under a house and run a wire. "Why don't we hire someone that will do it?" he asked. "Good idea", says I, "You go home now, I will run the wire and hire a new guy in the morning." He did it, but I let him go a few days later.
 
Re: First job blues

Originally posted by Minuteman:
"You go home now, I will run the wire and hire a new guy in the morning." He did it, but I let him go a few days later.
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Man I have used that a quit a few times. Get's them to do the job almost every time. I've had many though too that I didn't even have to get rid of after they did the job. They got rid of themselves.

To many kids are taught anymore that they can sit at a computer and not have to do anything but bring in a paycheck. I have two girls like this, just waiting for their wake up call. They are 20, and 18 and pretty much figure they have it made. Kicked the oldest out of the house once already because she thought she could sit on the computer till 4 in the morning and then not get up for work. After not to long she ran home to Mommy. (I'm Divorced by the way).
 
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App. 2 = second year apprentice

Augie, you are right. Good help is getting harder to find, but once in a while one turns up.
When My wife and I started this company, I told my business agent that I had no problem with hiring and laying off a few hundred ok guys to find the few that were worth keeping.

Minuteman, that was a preety cold-hearted thing to say to a new helper. I liked it. We don't need guys who are just in it for the money. We need those few that truly love this work.
 
Re: First job blues

Originally posted by jimwalker:
You get what you pay for ;)
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You get what you get... no matter how much you pay. I've paid a lot and gotten nothing or paid little and gotten a lot. Personally I perfer to start with kids that are really green but are eager to learn... then I teach them everything from scratch, including giving them home work almost every day. It is easier than trying to figure out what they already know, and I hate to say it but girls (women) typically pay better attention and learn faster.
 
Re: First job blues

Originally posted by Matt Harp:
Minuteman, that was a preety cold-hearted thing to say to a new helper. I liked it.
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Well, he had pushed my button before. Late to work, cell phone, long breaks. So when he made the suggestion that I hire another guy...

[ February 12, 2006, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Minuteman ]
 
Re: First job blues

I worked on a crew once were the Foreman made the 2 newbie apprentices HAND THREAD a bunch of 1" GRC into 24" nipples, over a 2 day period. A few days later, I was using the power threader in the job trailer and talking to the Foreman. One came in for something and said, "Why didn't you guys tell us that there is a power threader?" The boss says, "I wanted to teach you the appreciation of a power threader."
 
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