Fixture chain as EGC

[eds]

I have a chadelier that has no egc wire, it does have a fixure bracket bar with the standard green ground screw. I do meet the requirements of 250.118 with nmb installed to the metal fixture box. Here is the key question, can I rely on the fixture chain itself as the egc for the rest of the fixture? My first thought is no, but that was told to me long ago, maybe a old wives tale?

 

[tom baker]

Yes if the fixture chain is listed in250.118

 

[eds]

Does 250.18 apply to the fixture itself, or just the portion of the wiring to the fixture. What determines the size of the egc on the actual fixture?

 

[LarryFine]

I wouldn't think the chain qualifies as an EGC in any case. Nor do I think it's the installer's responsibility to add one to the fixture.

Methinks the bigger question is whether this fixture should be installed.

 

[retirede]

Methinks the bigger question is whether this fixture should be installed.

And is it listed?

 

[norcal]

I wouldn't think the chain qualifies as an EGC in any case. Nor do I think it's the installer's responsibility to add one to the fixture.

Methinks the bigger question is whether this fixture should be installed.

Have to agree that not installing the fixture is a good idea.

Relying on a chain for a EGC, is like relying on a gas flex connector for a EGC, no good will come out of it, & did come across the flex being the EGC, & the EGC, was being used for a neutral too, was glad to fix that one.

 

[eds]

I get that it is not my job to install it, what I can’t comprehend is why it may have been cut in the first place. Hopefully I will get a picture uploaded that shows what is either the egc or safety cable that has been cut

 

[tom baker]

You can buy bare copper 16 awg and thread thru chain
But luminaires have been required to be listed for many years. A listed fixture would have the required egc

 

[hbiss]

I have a chadelier that has no egc wire, it does have a fixure bracket bar with the standard green ground screw.

Let's back up here. How old is this fixture and what is it? Usually, a chain supported fixture will have a bare stranded #18 woven in the chain along with the supply conductors which is usually clear zip cord. That's if there is something down on the fixture itself that is conductive and requires grounding. So, I can see a wooden fixture like a wagon wheel with only lamp holders having nothing to ground.

-Hal

 

[eds]

this fixture has (25) 40 watt lamps I would think the egc would need to be a #14

 

[eds]

Picture of cut egc or saftey cable

 

[eds]

Actual fixture

 

[LarryFine]

Picture of cut egc or saftey cable

That used to be the EGC. The only real way to lengthen it is to open the fixture and wirenut or solder on a replacement.

 

[eds]

Whlie I generally agree with that, the way it is frayed out reminds me of what a safety cable looks like when it cut with dykes. Copper ego generally cuts cleaner. In a case like this what determines the size of the egc?

 

[infinity]

IMO you can either buy the proper #16 or #18 copper wire for the fixture EGC and do the job correctly or don't hang the fixture.

 

[eds]

IMO you can either buy the proper #16 or #18 copper wire for the fixture EGC and do the job correctly or don't hang the fixture.

Totally agree, but what determines if it is #16 or #18. Fixture wire threaded thru the chain?

 

[infinity]

Totally agree, but what determines if it is #16 or #18. Fixture wire threaded thru the chain?

Yes I would base it on the size of the fixture wire proved by the manufacturer.

 

[hbiss]

Totally agree, but what determines if it is #16 or #18. Fixture wire threaded thru the chain?

Doesn't make a bit of difference for the ground wire.

-Hal

 

[Sea Nile]

I'll bet you a coke that that chain is not the original chain that came with the fixture.

I bet someone wanted a longer chain and simply replaced it and didn't bother running a new egc.

How heavy is the fixture?

 

[eds]

I'll bet you a coke that that chain is not the original chain that came with the fixture.

I bet someone wanted a longer chain and simply replaced it and didn't bother running a new egc.

How heavy is the fixture?

guessing around 50 to 60lbs, how can you tell it’s not the original chain?