Fixture socket say only use led equivalent to 75watt incandescent

[tallgirl]

Not every lamp has a burnout protection. Those that do often do to prevent bad reviews and returns, but they often don't mention the feature, because they don't want to advertise their 1600 lumen bulb becomes a 600 lumen bulb in an enclosed fixture after it is fully warmed up. It's very much like computer clocking down to prevent damage in case of blocked vent or fan problems.

What's the rated input wattage of the lamp, fixture type and how long did you observe the true input watt for?

Earlier in this thread, tall girl made excellent points. In addition to the LED chip itself, the materials used for the solid state fluorescent lamp's phosphor blend, as well as the components of LED ballasts can not reliably handle the temperature needed to reach an equilibrium to dissipate the heat.

A lot of consumer electronics have maximum rated temperatures well within the range people can touch, without any risk of injury. Something in the 50-60C range isn't uncommon as a maximum ambient temperature, and that's going to be reached inside just about any actual enclosure. If you want a higher LED wattage rating for a base either improve its cooling ability (kinda dumb) or use higher temperature rated (automotive or industrial) components.

 

[gadfly56]

A lot of consumer electronics have maximum rated temperatures well within the range people can touch, without any risk of injury. Something in the 50-60C range isn't uncommon as a maximum ambient temperature, and that's going to be reached inside just about any actual enclosure. If you want a higher LED wattage rating for a base either improve its cooling ability (kinda dumb) or use higher temperature rated (automotive or industrial) components.

If you make firm contact with a metal surface at 60°C (140°F), you are likely to come away with second degree burns. If it is casual contact, where reflexes cause you to immediately jerk away, probably no harm. Cloth covered pipe insulation at the same temperature is unlikely to cause any damage. The infinite contact limit is 43°C. See below for more info.

Contact Burn Injuries: The Influence of Object Thermal Mass - In Compliance Magazine

This article identifies the burn injury threshold conditions associated with finite thermal mass objects and presents a model for predicting the degree of burn injury.

incompliancemag.com

 

[shedsur]

This conversation makes me wonder, do multi-lamp fixtures ever state that you need to or should either install all LED lamps or none at all tellculvers com survey taco bell breakfast hours

 

[Fred B]

This conversation makes me wonder, do multi-lamp fixtures ever state that you need to or should either install all LED lamps or none at all tellculvers com survey taco bell breakfast hours

I've seen some listed only for non LED. Also seen LED bulbs listed to be used in "open" enclosures or not fully enclosed like in the "jelly jar" type fixture. As mention a few times the electronics of an LED is sensitive to heat. Think about even your computers most will have a fan to cool the electronics and even higher end will be liquid cooled.
Also if you are to just put your hand behind one of the new TVs it will still have detectable heat but no where near what my old tube type put out.

So the fixture mfg has no real control over the bulb put into it, but will make a recommendation based on maybe even to least effective disipation bulb to prevent 1. undesirable effects with the lighting ie flicker or dimming or even intermitant light failure that can be from lower end bulbs without as effective dissipation of heat as another brand. 2, reduce premature bulb failure, 3, less like issue but prevention of fixture failure. All or any of which would likely result firstly in a negative brand view by the customer who would say that "the bulbs worked fine in another fixture therefor it must be the fixture why there is a problem". Basically as someone said a case of CYB.

Maybe someone has access to UL criteria for heat limit and dissipation related to LED buld and fixture combination that would restrict the listing on a product?
It would seem to me, based on the amount of heat from an LED, any criteria unlikely related to the wireing temperature restrictions such as 60^oC vs 90^oC like I've seen on some fixtures specifically being stating as a requirement.

 

[kwired]

Don't know if it has been mentioned earlier in thread or not, but there are "watt restrictors" in some luminaires that basically are thermal devices that will open the circuit if current draw is too high from say using wrong lamp type.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I'd happily put a 100w equivalent LED bulb in there and argue my case with anyone. Bring it on.

LED's have been baked into the load calcs in california for a while now.
if you have a fixture capable of being rated for 60 watts incandescent,
then 60 watts per fixture is what is used in the calcs.

and you can't make your wattage per square ft. so you can't put in retrofit
LED's into incandescent luminaires. they aren't title 20 listed. and you need
9 watts per can light to make it thru calculations, not 60.

"bring it on" is when you do a commercial building interpretive freestyle, and the
building inspector asks for your lighting certification at the end of the job. and
you put in light fixtures with retrofit LED's, 'cause that was what you could get,
as the stuff on the lighting schedule wasn't available for six months.

and you call someone to come and certify it. and then, there you are, with it brought on.
you aren't getting a magic paper, and you aren't getting a final.

 

[jaggedben]

Yeah, we really weren't talking about building energy certification here. That's a whole different subject.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Yeah, we really weren't talking about building energy certification here. That's a whole different subject.

of course. you said "bring it on", and usually the thing that rolls over you is coming from a
different direction than anticipated. i'd a not mentioned it, but you do live in california.....

didn't see the title 24 nerd coming, didja? if we were discussing real world scenarios,
and not theoretical abstracts, the freestyle installation of lighting components has the
T24 nerd wildcard to be played.

 

[jaggedben]

Fair enough.

 

[AC\DC]

LED's have been baked into the load calcs in california for a while now.
if you have a fixture capable of being rated for 60 watts incandescent,
then 60 watts per fixture is what is used in the calcs.

I know nothing about title 24. Sounds like you have to base a retro job on what the old Incandescent can put out in your calculation?
Even if you put a 35watt led a19 bulb in at about 4600 lumens vs the old 60 watt incandescent at around 700 lumens.
Seems dumb and an unneeded expense if that's the case.
Good for the electrical contractor though lol.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Fixture say either 75watt incandescent or led equivalent led wattage.
So looking around 8-11 watts for led…..
Why would a led 100 watt equivalent not work still going to be way under the incandescent wattage.

seems dump to me

Cause thems is the rules

 

[Fulthrotl]

I know nothing about title 24. Sounds like you have to base a retro job on what the old Incandescent can put out in your calculation?
Even if you put a 35watt led a19 bulb in at about 4600 lumens vs the old 60 watt incandescent at around 700 lumens.
Seems dumb and an unneeded expense if that's the case.
Good for the electrical contractor though lol.

yep. what the fixture is capable of, is what you calculate with.
nobody uses incandescent can lights in calif.
every t bar troffer light is 0-10 dimmable. has to be. any room
larger than 100 sq. ft. needs full range dimming.

 

[kwired]

yep. what the fixture is capable of, is what you calculate with.
nobody uses incandescent can lights in calif.
every t bar troffer light is 0-10 dimmable. has to be. any room
larger than 100 sq. ft. needs full range dimming.

And people wonder why real estate prices are generally higher in that area of the country for something that on the surface looks to be similar? Sure there is other factors but some of what needs to go into just getting it built is a significant factor.