So...........Is he saying that a cord and plug connected condensate pump is OK above a hung ceiling ?[/QUOTE]
Thats the way I read it, but I will attempt some clarification.
Flexible cord allowed
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So...........Is he saying that a cord and plug connected condensate pump is OK above a hung ceiling ?[/QUOTE]
Thats the way I read it, but I will attempt some clarification.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Sorry, but I will still take the NEC over some guy's undocumented remarks. I don't care if he was on the CMP or not. I can just imagine the look on an inspector's face when I try to justify putting a cord above a ceiling based upon what a person on the CMP told someone on Mike Holt's code forum.
I agree... my mind is not changed but open :grin:
I do give some weight to his comments, but just like EC&M comments and mine and yours or Elmer Fudd's, they are opinions.... the only one that counts is the AHJ.
I am interested in the substantiating comments from my CMP friend if I get any.
I do give some weight to his comments, but just like EC&M comments and mine and yours or Elmer Fudd's, they are opinions.... the only one that counts is the AHJ.
I am interested in the substantiating comments from my CMP friend if I get any.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I agree that there is a safety issue with cords, but I don't see that as being exclusive to above ceilings. I also don't see the problem as being worse just because the cord is above a ceiling.
- Location
- Massachusetts
In my mind the problem is that ceiling conceals the cord, not that the ceiling makes the cord more dangerous.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
There are plenty of cords that do not dry rot. Claiming that the use of an inappropriate material is a reason to ban an otherwise safe installation seems bogus to me.
I was not suggesting allowing it only for TVs. I can't see any good reason the use of cords above a suspended ceiling would be generally unsafe at all.
isn't smurf tubing allowed there? How is that any "safer".
I agree with Bob, but, for what it's worth......
Gus: "Do I understand that the consensus of opinion is that my condensate pump with a 4 ft factory cord can be plugged in and used above a suspended ceiling as long as the pump/cord/plug are all above the ceiling ?"
Answer (CMP member): Yeppers
Gus: "Do I understand that the consensus of opinion is that my condensate pump with a 4 ft factory cord can be plugged in and used above a suspended ceiling as long as the pump/cord/plug are all above the ceiling ?"
Answer (CMP member): Yeppers
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
How is being concealed less safe?
it is probably better protected up above the ceiling where it is unlikely to ever get messed with than down on the floor where it gets tripped over and stepped on and run over with a fork lift.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
This is indeed interesting.
Glancing through the book and looking at 'uses permitted' and 'uses not permitted' I can see no other articles that contain the phrase 'unless specifically permitted in (uses permitted).
How does this make sense? A use can only be 'not permitted' if it's already not permitted?
400.8 states, in part, 'Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:'
400.7 states, in part, that 'Flexible cords and cables shall only be used for the following:'
So, in order for 400.8 to apply, there has to be a 400.7 violation?
That's just crazy.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I know that is the premise of the rule, but my recent experiences with this problem was with no visible evidence of the problem on the exterior of the cord so it would not matter if the cord is concealed or not.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
He may be a CMP member that thinks like I do. The items plugged into the receptacle are outside the scope of the NEC. Yes I am aware of the rules in the NEC that say otherwise including much of Article 422, but it remains my opinion the cord and plug connected equipment is outside the scope of the code.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Interesting panel statement from the 2011 ROP:
Submitter: Ron L. Janikowski, City of Wausau, Wisconsin / Rep. CMP16
Special Editorial Task Group
Recommendation: Add new Exception to read as follows:
Exception to (5). Flexible cord as part of an assembly not exceeding 6 ft in
length shall be permitted above suspended or dropped ceilings, provided the
space above the ceiling is not in conflict with 300.22.
Substantiation: Security cameras, fire detection and other equipment that is
shipped with molded cord assemblies cannot be installed under current code
rules. I think short pieces of cord, part of a listed assembly should be allowed. I think a greater problem exists when the contractor tries to hand wire the equipment.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The substantiation states that some equipment cannot be
installed under current code rules. There are currently provisions in the code
that address this issue and allow installation of cords above suspended ceilings.
The authority having jurisdiction could ultimately allow permission for these
types of installations based on 400.7(A)(3).
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11
Submitter: Ron L. Janikowski, City of Wausau, Wisconsin / Rep. CMP16
Special Editorial Task Group
Recommendation: Add new Exception to read as follows:
Exception to (5). Flexible cord as part of an assembly not exceeding 6 ft in
length shall be permitted above suspended or dropped ceilings, provided the
space above the ceiling is not in conflict with 300.22.
Substantiation: Security cameras, fire detection and other equipment that is
shipped with molded cord assemblies cannot be installed under current code
rules. I think short pieces of cord, part of a listed assembly should be allowed. I think a greater problem exists when the contractor tries to hand wire the equipment.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The substantiation states that some equipment cannot be
installed under current code rules. There are currently provisions in the code
that address this issue and allow installation of cords above suspended ceilings.
The authority having jurisdiction could ultimately allow permission for these
types of installations based on 400.7(A)(3).
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11
RICK NAPIER
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
The panels response does not make sense to me since 400.7(A)3 deals with portable and mobile equipment and the submitter is talking about fixed equipment.
SO above ceiling
SO above ceiling
I wrote to NFPA regarding this. As an inspector I wrote up 100 cases of SO protruding above ACT. I believe 400.7 assumes pendant mount fixtures have outlet boxes at the ceiling, but I have seen manufacturers instructions for a pendant mount showing SO protruding thru plate/ nipple on the ceiling tile and running exposed to a jbox in the overhead.
SO above ceiling
I wrote to NFPA regarding this. As an inspector I wrote up 100 cases of SO protruding above ACT. I believe 400.7 assumes pendant mount fixtures have outlet boxes at the ceiling, but I have seen manufacturers instructions for a pendant mount showing SO protruding thru plate/ nipple on the ceiling tile and running exposed to a jbox in the overhead.
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