Floor Penetrations

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Dustin Foelber

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We are currently installing EMT stubs through corrogated decking that will be poured with light weight concrete. There is talk on the job that we were to sleeve our pipes with foam and fire caulk around them. In the past we have never been required to do this. Does anyone have some insight on this?
Thank you in advance.
Dustin

P.S. Job is in Rancho Santa Margarita, Orange County, CA.
 
I would talk to the inspector. As long as the pipe was in place when the floor was poured, I would not require fire caulking.

Oh and what Chris said.:smile:
 
dcspector said:
Just so I do not look too silly.

I must have mis read the op. I was looking at 712.4.2.1.....06' IBC
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It was never my intention to make anyone look silly, I just want to point out that generally Chapter 7 of the IBC applys to fire rated assemblys.

712.4.2.1 does require the annular space around noncombustable penetrations in non-fire rated assemblys to be filled with an approved material to prevent the free passage of flame and smoke.

This section does not necessarily require the use of fire caulk, but the material used to fill the space must be approved.

Chris
 
No Chris you did not make me look silly at all. It was a figure of speech so to say. I assumed (rated assembly) from the op and one should never assume. Thanks my friend.
 
dcspector said:
No Chris you did not make me look silly at all. It was a figure of speech so to say. I assumed (rated assembly) from the op and one should never assume. Thanks my friend.
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Your are very welcome.

You did bring up a good point, that even if it is a non-rated assembly you still need to draftstop the annular space around the conduit.

What I have done in the past in this situation is to fill the space with non-shrink grout.

Chris
 
Help with penetrations

Help with penetrations

Is it ok to install emt directly through robinson deck (corrogated decking) and let them pour arond the pipe or do we have to install sleeves and fire caulk around the pipe. The plumber for the project insists we can not penetrate floor with conduit only but I have done it many times in the past and never failed an inspection. I would really appreciate any input on this one.
Thank You
Dustin
 
Dustin Foelber said:
Is it ok to install emt directly through robinson deck (corrogated decking) and let them pour arond the pipe or do we have to install sleeves and fire caulk around the pipe. The plumber for the project insists we can not penetrate floor with conduit only but I have done it many times in the past and never failed an inspection. I would really appreciate any input on this one.
Thank You
Dustin
Click to expand...

The plumber is not allowed to do that, he maybe assuming that because he can't no one else can either.
 
Dustin Foelber said:
Is it ok to install emt directly through robinson deck (corrogated decking) and let them pour arond the pipe or do we have to install sleeves and fire caulk around the pipe. The plumber for the project insists we can not penetrate floor with conduit only but I have done it many times in the past and never failed an inspection. I would really appreciate any input on this one.
Thank You
Dustin
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This is a good question. I believe, but am not 100% sure, that when the EMT or other conduit/pipe is installed before the pour, that the firestopping/ annular space around the conduit/pipe is not required.
I am going to research this further.




I am sure that if the floor has been poured, and then core-boring is performed to install the conduit afterwards, then an annular space as per the UL Standard would have to be provided and a proper material used to fill the void. Concrete is not permitted to fill this type of void for this type of installation.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
This is a good question. I believe, but am not 100% sure, that when the EMT or other conduit/pipe is installed before the pour, that the firestopping/ annular space around the conduit/pipe is not required.
I am going to research this further.




I am sure that if the floor has been poured, and then core-boring is performed to install the conduit afterwards, then an annular space as per the UL Standard would have to be provided and a proper material used to fill the void. Concrete is not permitted to fill this type of void for this type of installation.
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That was my thinking too Pierre.
 
John and pierre I thought we covered this on post #6. I agree as well just the Annular space in a rated assembly would need fire blocked/stop/caulk. If the sleeves or EMT, etc, etc. are set and the deck is poured around the perimeter of the mentioned then it is a done deal.
 
dcspector said:
John and pierre I thought we covered this on post #6. I agree as well just the Annular space in a rated assembly would need fire blocked/stop/caulk. If the sleeves or EMT, etc, etc. are set and the deck is poured around the perimeter of the mentioned then it is a done deal.
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I agree.

Roger
 
raider1 said:
712.4.2.1 does require the annular space around noncombustable penetrations in non-fire rated assemblys to be filled with an approved material to prevent the free passage of flame and smoke.

This section does not necessarily require the use of fire caulk, but the material used to fill the space must be approved.
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Would the concrete itself qualify?

I thought penetrations required material that would expand and close off the hole as the penetrating material burned away.

Added: Bituminous?
 
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LarryFine said:
Would the concrete itself qualify?

I thought penetrations required material that would expand and close off the hole as the penetrating material burned away.

Added: Bituminous?
Click to expand...

Concrete itself works as a draft stop.

The only time you need an intumisscent (not sure I spelled it right :)) fire caulk is if you are filling the space around a combustable material such as PVC conduit or around a non-metallic cable.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
Concrete itself works as a draft stop.

The only time you need an intumisscent (not sure I spelled it right :)) fire caulk is if you are filling the space around a combustable material such as PVC conduit or around a non-metallic cable.

Chris
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Or the gaps of a metalic non-combustable as well. Many of the corrective 'assembelies' for penetration applications will also require intumescent puddy or chalking. Most of them treat EMT the same way.
 
e57 said:
Or the gaps of a metalic non-combustable as well. Many of the corrective 'assembelies' for penetration applications will also require intumescent puddy or chalking. Most of them treat EMT the same way.
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I haven't see that.

It makes no sense to use an intumescent caulk or pad on a metallic conduit. The reason for the use of an intumescent caulk is that it expands to fill the void left when a combustable material burns or melts away. I am not saying that there arn't any assemblies that use it, just that I haven't seen them.

Chris
 
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