Follow up to Don's post on the ROP....Confused

[Dennis Alwon]

I have a similar issue also. I wrote a proposal for art. 338 and I am not sure they read thru it or perhaps I am missing something. Would someone read it and tell me if I am off base. 338.10(B) states that USE as a feeder or branch circuit must follow part II of art. 340. Art. 340.80 states that uf must be rated 60C. This means to me that USE must be 60C as a feeder-- I don't think that is the intent and I see they agree but I don't understand their response about single conductor without a jacket

7-59 Log #817 NEC-P07 Final Action: Reject
(338.10(B)(4)(b))
________________________________________________________________
Submitter: Dennis Alwon, Alwon Electric Inc.
Recommendation: Revise text to read as follows:
(b) Exterior Installations. In addition to the provisions of this article, service entrance cable used for feeders or branch circuits, where installed as exterior wiring, shall be installed in accordance with Part I of Article 225. The cable shall be supported in accordance with 334.30. Type USE cable installed as underground feeder and branch circuit cable shall comply with Part II of Article 340, excluding 340.80


Substantiation: Why should USE cable be subject to the 60C ampacity rating of UF, NM and SEU and only as a feeder or branch circuit. I thought the concept for the 60C rating is because of insulation around a cable. When USE enters a building, if it is dual rated, then it must be in conduit so why would a cable rated 90C in dry location now be subject to 60C rating. Also underground it is rated 75C but now it must be limited to 60C when used as a feeder or branch circuit. I believe this was an oversight but I may be incorrect. It won?t be the first time.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The submitter is referring to single conductor USE per Table 310.104(A), whereas 338.10(B)(4)(b) is referring to a USE cable assembly with a plastic covering as defined in 338.2. Single conductor USE is not limited to the ampacity in 340.80.
Number Eligible to Vote: 14
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 14

 

[Dennis Alwon]

19 views surely someone has a comment???

 

[ryan_618]

Dennis: Why are you assuming that UF used as a service conductor has to be used at the 60 degree ampacity? Nothing in 338.10(B)(4)(b) refers me to Article 334 at all, so I have no special rules regarding the temperature rating, right? Perhaps I'm not following you either.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I am not saying that UF being used as a service conductor. I am stated that the section quoted stated that USE when used as a feeder must follow 340 part II which is for UF. 340.80 states that UF must be used at 60C so I am saying that the code is requiring USE to be used at 60C. Where is my logic off here

 

[Smart $]

I am not saying that UF being used as a service conductor. I am stated that the section quoted stated that USE when used as a feeder must follow 340 part II which is for UF. 340.80 states that UF must be used at 60C so I am saying that the code is requiring USE to be used at 60C. Where is my logic off here

It's not...

ARTICLE 338
Service-Entrance Cable:
Types SE and USE
...
338.10 Uses Permitted.
...
(B) Branch Circuits or Feeders.
...
(4) Installation Methods for Branch Circuits and Feeders.
...
(b) Exterior Installations. In addition to the provisions
of this article, service-entrance cable used for feeders or
branch circuits, where installed as exterior wiring, shall be
installed in accordance with Part I of Article 225. The cable
shall be supported in accordance with 334.30. Type USE
cable installed as underground feeder and branch circuit
cable shall comply with Part II of Article 340.

ARTICLE 340
Underground Feeder and Branch-Circuit
Cable: Type UF
...
II. Installation
...
340.80 Ampacity. The ampacity of Type UF[USE] shall be
that of 60?C (140?F) conductors in accordance with 310.15.

 

[ryan_618]

Dennis: I see what you are saying now. My brain was on auto-pilot, so I was reading your text as 334.80 instead of 340.80 (like it used to say). I think you are dead right.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It's not...

Dennis: I see what you are saying now. My brain was on auto-pilot, so I was reading your text as 334.80 instead of 340.80 (like it used to say). I think you are dead right.

Well, good, I am glad I am not nuts.... So is that it-- I have no recourse???

 

[brantmacga]

Well, good, I am glad I am not nuts.... So is that it-- I have no recourse???

There's always another three years from now.

 

[George Stolz]

Submit a comment and tell them to read slower.

 

[Smart $]

Submit a comment and tell them to read slower.

...with their glasses on. hmy:

 

[George Stolz]

...with their glasses on. hmy:

...and before the snifter of brandy.

 

[ryan_618]

Submit a comment with a fake name on it (yes, I'm serious), telling them that they should have passed it. It always looks better if the submitter isn't the only person in the world who thinks he is right. Make a comment with your real name as well though.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The panel members can change their mind at the comment stage. I had one that passed unanimously at the ROP and was rejected unanimously at the ROC and one that was just the opposite.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Thanks for the help with the comment stage which I believe is good til Aug.31.

I just can't understand why the CMP said that 338.10 does not refer to USE without the jacket- it clearly states USE