Food trucks

[GerryB]

The city recently provided permanent power in the form of 30 amp twistlock receptacles in pedestals for food trucks to plug in and not use generators. The question came up about should these receptacles be gfi protected.

 

[user 100]

The city recently provided permanent power in the form of 30 amp twistlock receptacles in pedestals for food trucks to plug in and not use generators. The question came up about should these receptacles be gfi protected.

Assuming these are 120 volt recs, then I'm going with yes- see 210.8(B) in the 2017- The key operative words of the passage are .."150 volts to ground or less.....50 amperes or less

Unless there is a unicorn somewhere else in the code that another member knows about.

Even if it wasn't required, not a bad idea imo.

 

[ptonsparky]

That will sort out the serious vendors. Wholeheartedly support the idea.

 

[GerryB]

Assuming these are 120 volt recs, then I'm going with yes- see 210.8(B) in the 2017- The key operative words of the passage are .."150 volts to ground or less.....50 amperes or less

Unless there is a unicorn somewhere else in the code that another member knows about.

Even if it wasn't required, not a bad idea imo.

240 volt 30 amp twistlocks, I assume feeding a panel in the food truck. I was thinking along the lines of mobile home, park trailors etc. where I see no GFI requirement. Any 110 receptacles in the truck itself would be a different story, consider it like a commercial kitchen.

 

[user 100]

240 volt 30 amp twistlocks, I assume feeding a panel in the food truck. I was thinking along the lines of mobile home, park trailors etc. where I see no GFI requirement. Any 110 receptacles in the truck itself would be a different story, consider it like a commercial kitchen.

Then no- there is no GFCI requirement.

Still think its a good idea.

Now, as for the gfci requirement for trucks themselves, outside of a local amendment the NEC doesn't apply- see 90.5(B)
Still a good idea to just do it anyway.

 

[GerryB]

Then no- there is no GFCI requirement.

Still think its a good idea.

Now, as for the requirement for trucks themselves, outside of a local amendment the NEC doesn't apply- see 90.5(B)
Still a good idea to just do it anyway.

Yes, good idea, the city might be liable if some one got hurt. The other side is vendors are paying for these spots. A nuisance trip with a locked panel 200 feet away would not go over big. The park electrician told me they did gfi protection in a different part of the city and some truck owners had to hire electricians to separate the ground and neutra lbond in their trucks.

 

[user 100]

Yes, good idea, the city might be liable if some one got hurt. The other side is vendors are paying for these spots. A nuisance trip with a locked panel 200 feet away would not go over big.

Imo, this is more about public safety rather than the concerns from the vendors- a lot of these types of vehicles are pretty old and
people do get bit. If they don't want to use the city recs, perhaps they can compromise by being still able to rent the spots and doing their business running off their own gennys- but also agree to some stipulations imposed by the city.

 

[infinity]

Under the 2017 GFCI protection is required for these outdoor receptacles. As User stated look at 210.8(B)(4). Food trucks are outside of the purview of the NEC and in many places are regulated by the health department.

 

[user 100]

Under the 2017 GFCI protection is required for these outdoor receptacles. As ​User stated look at 210.8(B)(4). Food trucks are outside of the purview of the NEC and in many places are regulated by the health department.

Ah, he was correct at first.....

Assuming these are 120 volt recs, then I'm going with yes- see 210.8(B) in the 2017- The key operative words of the passage are .."150 volts to ground or less.....50 amperes or less

Unless there is a unicorn somewhere else in the code that another member knows about.

Even if it wasn't required, not a bad idea imo.

Then there was this b/c he did not read far enough down thru 210.8(B) did not see (4) and was thinking of something else......
VVVVVVV

Then no- there is no GFCI requirement.

Still think its a good idea.

Now, as for the gfci requirement for trucks themselves, outside of a local amendment the NEC doesn't apply- see 90.5(B)
Still a good idea to just do it anyway.

GerryB, infinity found the "unicorn", they DO have to be gfci per the '17....

 

[George Stolz]

525.23 may apply, meaning GFCI protection not required.

I once went above and beyond and GFCI protected food trucks at a fair that were served with 50A circuits. That stupid act left me looking very stupid and very tired, after chasing downtown umpteen times trying to find causes for umpteen trips. After reading the code thoroughly, I kicked myself for all the money I had wasted and the bad name I had given the company out of a spirit of "better safe than sorry." Food trucks are wired by methheads for free pancakes and GFCIs have no tolerance for them; food truck vendors (and event organizers) have little patience for such nonsense. At least a quarter of the vendors went on generators almost immediately and I was out there the first night of the event after they closed out putting regular breakers in.

I doubt they'll call next year unless they have a short memory or a kind heart.

 

[zbang]

What George said . Food trucks are seldom wired properly, and with GFCIs you'll be chasing trips all day (and won't be fed gratis by the vendors). I do draw the line when a truck is is adapting down to a 5-15 plug; if they trip the GFCI it's too bad for them since I'm not removing it.

 

[ptonsparky]

Aren't food trucks/trailers licensed or given permits to operate at events? Is an electrical inspection or test too much to expect in exchange for that permit? The vendors need to be notified first, of course.

The very first 30A 120v receptacle we GFCId caught multiple problems in the trailer. It was sold vs repaired.

George's dilemma makes me chuckle. Sorry.​

 

[romex jockey]

Well it's a trade dilemma having to gfci protect the gfci intolerant.

I don't know how we're expected to address the new '17 210.8B requirements

Juxtaposed with the sentiment of mobile food borne pathogens via carneys infecting the populace w/poor refrigeration .....

Maybe the NEC should have a 'no good deed goes unpunished committee'

I think i need a rolaids now.....


~RJ~

 

[infinity]

525.23 may apply, meaning GFCI protection not required.

I once went above and beyond and GFCI protected food trucks at a fair that were served with 50A circuits. That stupid act left me looking very stupid and very tired, after chasing downtown umpteen times trying to find causes for umpteen trips. After reading the code thoroughly, I kicked myself for all the money I had wasted and the bad name I had given the company out of a spirit of "better safe than sorry." Food trucks are wired by methheads for free pancakes and GFCIs have no tolerance for them; food truck vendors (and event organizers) have little patience for such nonsense. At least a quarter of the vendors went on generators almost immediately and I was out there the first night of the event after they closed out putting regular breakers in.

I doubt they'll call next year unless they have a short memory or a kind heart.

A receptacle for a food truck is covered under Article 525Carnivals, Circuses, Fairs, and SimilarEvents? hmy:

 

[GoldDigger]

A receptacle for a food truck is covered under Article 525Carnivals, Circuses, Fairs, and SimilarEvents? hmy:

I would say that a food fair or the food booth component of a street fair might be covered. There is a congregation of food trucks or booths (which probably need power too) in one area under one management/oversight.

The same food trucks that might participate, when acting independently and scattered throughout the city do not seem to meet the qualification inherent in the Article title.

 

[romex jockey]

Well....it's somewhat definitional .....anything i even bought off a roach coach ended up eventful ~RJ~

 

[steve66]

Assuming these are 120 volt recs, then I'm going with yes- see 210.8(B) in the 2017

But what version of the code has the City adopted? If its an older version, then GFCI isn't required.

 

[kwired]

Imo, this is more about public safety rather than the concerns from the vendors- a lot of these types of vehicles are pretty old and
people do get bit. If they don't want to use the city recs, perhaps they can compromise by being still able to rent the spots and doing their business running off their own gennys- but also agree to some stipulations imposed by the city.

Sounded to me like city provided permanent power to eliminate use of generators.



Question is what exactly are these "food trucks" 30 amps isn't a lot for a sales application. It is probably plenty for overnight parking of "reefer" trucks, and maybe the noise of generators on such trucks was the mission when installing permanent power?

 

[GerryB]

Sounded to me like city provided permanent power to eliminate use of generators.



Question is what exactly are these "food trucks" 30 amps isn't a lot for a sales application. It is probably plenty for overnight parking of "reefer" trucks, and maybe the noise of generators on such trucks was the mission when installing permanent power?

That is right, to eliminate the gennys I think for enviromental. Lots of trucks, mostly mexican, been there, for years running gennys, right off of I-95 in New Haven, Ct. Now with the permanent power whatever the permit fee was before I think it went up $500.00. Again pedestals with a 240 volt 30 amp twistlock and also a 120volt TR WR receptacle. Conn. is on NEC 2014.

 

[user 100]

But what version of the code has the City adopted? If its an older version, then GFCI isn't required.

That is right, to eliminate the gennys I think for enviromental. Lots of trucks, mostly mexican, been there, for years running gennys, right off of I-95 in New Haven, Ct. Now with the permanent power whatever the permit fee was before I think it went up $500.00. Again pedestals with a 240 volt 30 amp twistlock and also a 120volt TR WR receptacle. Conn. is on NEC 2014.

So, since Conn is on the '14:

The 120v rec will need to be gfci if they are 20 amps or less and the other rec (the 30a 240 twistlock ) will not.