Forklift charger

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iwire said:
The unit is listed as a charger, not an overcurrent device. IMO Those fuses inside do not exist to the NEC.
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Understand, but I also don't see it being any different for the most part though then an air handler with electric heat strips. If you have a air handler with a 30 and 60 amp breaker but run two 60 amp circuits to it, is one of them a branch circuit and the other a feeder and maybe is wrong?

I guess listing and instructions maybe make some difference here as well.

I really think this probably is not code compliant, I have no major safety concerns, but also am not easily finding just what NEC section to cite if I were the inspector that was trying to red tag it. Lets leave out the inspectors that cite 90.4 with no justification though.
 
Firstly, this is an non inspected job in an industrial facility. But, I would like to know the answer to this next time I have to pull a permit on one of these. I lifted a excerpt from an EC&M article by MH to start with about feeders if this helps. Also, i'm pretty sure the fuses were branch circuit protection rated.

The main difference is that a feeder runs between an overcurrent protection device (OCPD) at the supply and a downstream OCPD (typically supplying a branch circuit), while a branch circuit runs between an OCPD and an outlet (or final load). In other words, a feeder supplies power to a branch-circuit OCPD ? which, in turn, powers a branch circuit. However, you size that branch-circuit OCPD based on branch-circuit load calculations (and outlet requirements), not on feeder calculations.

From the above then maybe it's a branch circuit ? If so, then maybe it should have been on a 3 pole 30 amp OCPD ???



 
Cletis said:
Firstly, this is an non inspected job in an industrial facility. But, I would like to know the answer to this next time I have to pull a permit on one of these. I lifted a excerpt from an EC&M article by MH to start with about feeders if this helps. Also, i'm pretty sure the fuses were branch circuit protection rated.

The main difference is that a feeder runs between an overcurrent protection device (OCPD) at the supply and a downstream OCPD (typically supplying a branch circuit), while a branch circuit runs between an OCPD and an outlet (or final load). In other words, a feeder supplies power to a branch-circuit OCPD ? which, in turn, powers a branch circuit. However, you size that branch-circuit OCPD based on branch-circuit load calculations (and outlet requirements), not on feeder calculations.

From the above then maybe it's a branch circuit ? If so, then maybe it should have been on a 3 pole 30 amp OCPD ???
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Most fuses like pictured would be rated for branch circuit protection, the difference here is there is no fused switch or adjacent switch to disconnect to make it safer to perform any task with those fuses, and the question still has not been answered whether or not the disconnect that is the feeder breaker only 8 feet of conductor away can satisfy this requirement. I also believe that if it can be the required disconnect that it doesn't matter if the conductors are feeders or feeder taps, so the question IMO kind of becomes how much conductor can be between a fuse and the disconnect required in 240.40, more so then can we supply this unit with a feeder tap.
 
kwired said:
Most fuses like pictured would be rated for branch circuit protection, the difference here is there is no fused switch or adjacent switch to disconnect to make it safer to perform any task with those fuses, and the question still has not been answered whether or not the disconnect that is the feeder breaker only 8 feet of conductor away can satisfy this requirement. I also believe that if it can be the required disconnect that it doesn't matter if the conductors are feeders or feeder taps, so the question IMO kind of becomes how much conductor can be between a fuse and the disconnect required in 240.40, more so then can we supply this unit with a feeder tap.
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Actually, the main panel with the 50 is literally 2ft above photo. Probably only 5ft as crow flies and I could probably kill main and touch fuses with my arms if they could bend. So, very close. We made 8ft of sealtight so they could move it around on skid if needed a bit.
 
Cletis said:
Actually, the main panel with the 50 is literally 2ft above photo. Probably only 5ft as crow flies and I could probably kill main and touch fuses with my arms if they could bend. So, very close. We made 8ft of sealtight so they could move it around on skid if needed a bit.
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I just throwing this idea out there to see if anyone has any information that may clear up the question. I don't know the answer. I also would not lose any sleep worrying about burning that place down with the installation as presented, but kind of interested if anyone can produce an answer that is relatively clear cut.
 
under8ed said:
I don't understand why there would be so much thought put into this since the correct size wire will fit in the raceway.
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True, but correct branch circuit overcurrent protection may still be 30 amps - so back to the question of is the fuses in the unit the branch circuit device or just an aux device?
 
kwired said:
True, but correct branch circuit overcurrent protection may still be 30 amps - so back to the question of is the fuses in the unit the branch circuit device or just an aux device?
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The fuse in this unit have nothing to do with how we must apply the NEC.
 
iwire said:
The fuse in this unit have nothing to do with how we must apply the NEC.
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I very well may agree with that.

If so that means the supply breaker is the branch circuit device. Whether or not we can have "tap" conductors in this branch circuit may depend on what type of load is supplied and the applicable code sections for that load type. Otherwise the general rules will require the conductors to be protected at their ampacity or to the allowances of the "next size up rules"
 
This goes into another realm here but I have always been amused by cord and plug devices and wire size. You can buy stuff to
plug into a 20 amp outlet that is wired with wire down to very small sizes, like 18awg and smaller. Leaving the small wire to be protected
by the 20 amp OCPD. So....if the OP just hooked up a receptacle to his circuit, would he then be able to downsize to the 30 amps if it was
a cord and plug unit? I've done chargers both ways cord and plug and with flex conduit. If OP's job was mine I would have sized for the breaker
anyhow but I see his point. If he uses the 30 amp wire to straight to the charger or if his 30 amp cable is plugged into a receptacle it would be
essentially the same circuit. But one method would be no good and the other ok...?
 
Aleman said:
This goes into another realm here but I have always been amused by cord and plug devices and wire size. You can buy stuff to
plug into a 20 amp outlet that is wired with wire down to very small sizes, like 18awg and smaller. Leaving the small wire to be protected
by the 20 amp OCPD. So....if the OP just hooked up a receptacle to his circuit, would he then be able to downsize to the 30 amps if it was
a cord and plug unit? I've done chargers both ways cord and plug and with flex conduit. If OP's job was mine I would have sized for the breaker
anyhow but I see his point. If he uses the 30 amp wire to straight to the charger or if his 30 amp cable is plugged into a receptacle it would be
essentially the same circuit. But one method would be no good and the other ok...?
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I have seen welders with 50 amp cord cap and only 12AWG cord - this is factory installed that way.
 
How this happened is there just happened to be a spare 3 pole 50 old GE bolt on already in panel. Didn't really feel like wandering around trying to find a 3 pole 30 Oddball GE. I felt confident nothing bad could ever come of this so we hooked up and were on our merry way. We didn't have #8 Cu and 1" Sealtight in truck or we might have just put that in to COA
 
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