Fotter bond cut off

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allenwayne

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It is my understanding that a concrete encased electrode can only be spliced with a non reversible means IE: cad weld or approved crimp or irreversible split bolt ( I have not found these)
We are now required to use this ground system and last week I had calls from 2 rough crews thet the wire had been cut off. Both about 1 ft out of footer With production as it is I scrambled and found a crimp sleeve listed for #4 doesn`t say solid or stranded ;) Just #4 CU so using a crimp tool we added the length we needed.Yesterday the AHJ said why dont you sink a ground rod snd scorn it and use a 2 nd piece of ground wire under a 2 nd acorn to make connection :eek: Acorns are not irreversible unless we alter them with a hack saw.
 
Re: Fotter bond cut off

If I'm reading it right, I think he's saying you can have the GEC continuous to a rod and then a bonding jumper to the encased. (That doesn't have to be continuous)
 
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To run a circuit from main panel to sub panel and then to a receptacle, is the equipment grounding spliced from the main to the receptacle?

No, it is terminated in the sub panel just as landing the grounding electrode conductor under a clamp and leaving from under another clamp to where ever. It is not spliced but terminated, what do you think?
 
Re: Fotter bond cut off

The EGC cannot be compared to the GEC.

The GEC is generally prohibited from being spliced from the service to the first electrode. There are allowances for splicing under certain restictions. 250.64(C) 2005

There are no such prohibitions for splicing the EGC... it is okay to splice the EGC

[ March 15, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: crossman ]
 
Re: Fotter bond cut off

This may help, not all the conductors connected to grounding electrodes are GECs, the rest are bonding jumpers and can be spliced and terminated with any listed connector.

Bonding_Jumpers.JPG
 
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Bob nice pic but it doesn`t show the senario.In this one there is a #4 bare encased in the footer that hits the meter base as required by the POCO here but has been cut.AHJ says it is ok to hit a ground rod and add a seperate wire to the meter,non continuos :roll:
 
Re: Fotter bond cut off

Allen what he is saying is install a rod, run the new "GEC" to the new rod, then run a bonding jumper to the footer conductor and use a split bolt. As long as this connection is accessible it's code compliant as now this connection is only a bonding jumper.

Had me looking up what a fotter is. :roll:
 
Re: Fotter bond cut off

So it is okay to take a cut concrete encased wire to a ground rod and use a seperate connection to the point of attachment in this case the meter.
 
Re: Fotter bond cut off

I'm gonna try it from memory.

250.64(F)

GEC has to be continuous to any convienient electrode.

So you make something other than the footer the first electrode out of the panel. Then from that electrode the conductors are called bonding jumpers and they aren't required to be continuous.
 
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We deal with several different jurisdictions,one has concrete encased wire no ground rod.What then :roll:
 
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I understand and agree with the suggestions explained as per physis, iwire, et al. but what spell check is going to pass "footer".

paul
 
Re: Fotter bond cut off

Ok, first let me say that in my jurisdiction we require any splice in the Ufer ground conductor to be made by irreversible means. Usually we see crimp connectors used.

However, for purpose of discussion, I'd like to try this argument out on you all to see what you think. When a GEC is ran from the service to a ground rod, the connection is normally made with a properly listed connector that is not irreversible. No one has a problem with this because the connection between GEC and grounding electrode is not required to be irreversible. It seems reasonable to argue that in a scenario as mentioned in the OP, if the #4 conductor in the foundation has a length of at least 20' located in the footing, then it is the grounding electrode. Any conductor ran from the service to connect to the 1' section protruding from the foundation is the GEC. This connection between the GEC and the grounding electrode is likewise not required to be made by irreversible means.

To put it another way, we don't require irreversible means when a GEC connects to an electrode that is a ground rod. We don't require irreversible means when a GEC connects to an electrode that is a water pipe, or building steel. Why would irreversible means be required when a GEC connects to an electrode that is a #4 copper wire sticking out of a foundation?
 
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i have always thought that the ground must be contiuous till the first part of the electrical system ;)
 
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if the #4 conductor in the foundation has a length of at least 20' located in the footing, then it is the grounding electrode. Any conductor ran from the service to connect to the 1' section protruding from the foundation is the GEC.
Click to expand...
Well, no. It is "a" grounding electrode. Not "the" grounding electrode.

250.64(F) says the GEC goes continuous to any convenient electrode.

That "convenient electrode" may or may not be the Ufer.

I kind of understand what you're saying about the clamp not being permanent so why does the GEC have to be. And I'd also ask why shouldn't a bonding jumper have to be too? But I can see the splicing of the GEC as being significantly different than it's connection at the electrode.

we don't require irreversible means when a GEC connects to an electrode that is a ground rod
Click to expand...
We do if you're splicing a GEC that goes to a rod.
 
Re: Fotter bond cut off

I have always viewed this in this senario,as long as the primary grounding conductor to the primary point of attachment is continuous it has to be continuose then any taps are bonds IE: gas pipe etc.POCO here requires primary to be in the meter can ,This said then IMO any connections that are between the footer and the meter must be continious or irrevesable :D Hitting a gground rod first and tapping from there isn`t with in this guideline :D
 
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