Fotter bond cut off
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Re: Fotter bond cut off
I can see where some places would want a grounding electrode conductor running from the meter socket in as straight a line as possible to a grounding electrode. Electronic meters a a bit sensitive to lightning - 97% of the lightning damage in a telephone cable plant is from silent lightning and invisible lightning. When a Big One does hit you have about 100 side strikes over a 100 yard radius.
A direct strike that you can see and hear most likely will blow up an electrical service. As stated above most lightning damage is from a little bit of lightning.
I can see where some places would want a grounding electrode conductor running from the meter socket in as straight a line as possible to a grounding electrode. Electronic meters a a bit sensitive to lightning - 97% of the lightning damage in a telephone cable plant is from silent lightning and invisible lightning. When a Big One does hit you have about 100 side strikes over a 100 yard radius.
A direct strike that you can see and hear most likely will blow up an electrical service. As stated above most lightning damage is from a little bit of lightning.
sandsnow
Senior Member
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Re: Fotter bond cut off
My view on this:
The wire coming out the footing or slab is still a grounding electrode for 6 inches. Most times it is long enough to connect right to the ground buss of the service. If not then we allow a split bolt to a six inch stub and then run to the buss. That's in commercial.
In residential it's rebar. The stub out of the footing is still the UFER and is clamped and extended to service w/ the proper size.
Leaving a big coil of copper is tempting to thieves.
It may not be defensible by code, but I believe it is practible and common sense.
My view on this:
The wire coming out the footing or slab is still a grounding electrode for 6 inches. Most times it is long enough to connect right to the ground buss of the service. If not then we allow a split bolt to a six inch stub and then run to the buss. That's in commercial.
In residential it's rebar. The stub out of the footing is still the UFER and is clamped and extended to service w/ the proper size.
Leaving a big coil of copper is tempting to thieves.
It may not be defensible by code, but I believe it is practible and common sense.
Re: Fotter bond cut off
Sam,
no problem
Larry,
I think we're looking at it the same way and I think it is defensible by code. Here, in residential, it is usually a #4 copper stubbed out of the foundation. Usually it is long enough to run unspliced to the service. Sometimes it's not. When it's not, electricians around here splice by irreversible crimp connectors, and I'm certainly not going to make waves. But if they insisted on using a split bolt to a 6" stub out of the foundation, as long as the #4 in the foundation has at least a 20 foot length at the bottom of the footing, I think I'd have to allow it.
Sometimes the #4 in the foundation is not 20' in length, but is clamped to the footing rebar. In those cases, I believe the footing rebar is a Ufer ground and the #4 copper (all of it) is a GEC. And in those cases a split bolt on the 6" stub out of the foundation would be a violation of the requirement that the GEC be spliced only by irreversible means.
Sam,
no problem
Larry,
I think we're looking at it the same way and I think it is defensible by code. Here, in residential, it is usually a #4 copper stubbed out of the foundation. Usually it is long enough to run unspliced to the service. Sometimes it's not. When it's not, electricians around here splice by irreversible crimp connectors, and I'm certainly not going to make waves. But if they insisted on using a split bolt to a 6" stub out of the foundation, as long as the #4 in the foundation has at least a 20 foot length at the bottom of the footing, I think I'd have to allow it.
Sometimes the #4 in the foundation is not 20' in length, but is clamped to the footing rebar. In those cases, I believe the footing rebar is a Ufer ground and the #4 copper (all of it) is a GEC. And in those cases a split bolt on the 6" stub out of the foundation would be a violation of the requirement that the GEC be spliced only by irreversible means.
Re: Fotter bond cut off
What I do for footer grounds is to put the #4 or larger copper wire in PVC conduit to protect it against mechanical damage. There is also a problem that from 2 inches below to 2 inches above where a copper tube ore wire emerges from concrete it needs to be insulated to protect it from the corrosion in the alkaline environment of the concrete.
The first time that I did a 400 amp service I used 2 Ufer grounds consisting or two #4 copper wires running in opposite directions from where they entered the footer. I was using two 200 amp service circuit breakers and it only made sense to use 2 footer grounds instead of crimping a tap - the distance was short enough that the extra wire was cheaper than borrowing somebody's crimpers.
What I do for footer grounds is to put the #4 or larger copper wire in PVC conduit to protect it against mechanical damage. There is also a problem that from 2 inches below to 2 inches above where a copper tube ore wire emerges from concrete it needs to be insulated to protect it from the corrosion in the alkaline environment of the concrete.
The first time that I did a 400 amp service I used 2 Ufer grounds consisting or two #4 copper wires running in opposite directions from where they entered the footer. I was using two 200 amp service circuit breakers and it only made sense to use 2 footer grounds instead of crimping a tap - the distance was short enough that the extra wire was cheaper than borrowing somebody's crimpers.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Fotter bond cut off
Our AHJ`S were perplexed with the 20 ft thing some said there had to be 20 ft of CU in the footer but it was decided that there was a 20 ft piece of rebar in the slab that was ok my problem is that once it leaves the slab and someone cuts it off for (scrap)They are saying it is ok to install a ground rod and use a second connection to the meter.I prefer to use a crimp connector ( irreversible).But the AHJ says it is ok to sink a ground rod and use a second acorn to hit the meter.To me this is a potential problem two connections that are not irreversible Had one inspector in this same discussion today he said make sure the ground rod and both connections are well below grade and I`ll sign it off
Our AHJ`S were perplexed with the 20 ft thing some said there had to be 20 ft of CU in the footer but it was decided that there was a 20 ft piece of rebar in the slab that was ok my problem is that once it leaves the slab and someone cuts it off for (scrap)They are saying it is ok to install a ground rod and use a second connection to the meter.I prefer to use a crimp connector ( irreversible).But the AHJ says it is ok to sink a ground rod and use a second acorn to hit the meter.To me this is a potential problem two connections that are not irreversible
Had one inspector in this same discussion today he said make sure the ground rod and both connections are well below grade and I`ll sign it off Re: Fotter bond cut off
Sandsnow,
If you have to worry about 12 feet ( I am presuming that the UFER is right under where the service switch goes) of # 4 copper getting stolen, you need to fence of the foundation excavation at a minimum. Back in the 1980s we did not worry too much about this in suburban and rural areas but nowdays OSHA and the insurance companies are paranoid about somebody falling in a hole.
Invest in a good chain link fence that you can reuse. Stick some barbed wire or razor wire coils on top. At the bottom of the interior side lay out some loose barbed wire in case somebody cuts the fence or tries to drive through it. The kind of dog that needs to be shot with a transquilizer gun before unlocking also helps.
By the way, most doberman pinschers make for great lap dogs except for the weight.
Sandsnow,
If you have to worry about 12 feet ( I am presuming that the UFER is right under where the service switch goes) of # 4 copper getting stolen, you need to fence of the foundation excavation at a minimum. Back in the 1980s we did not worry too much about this in suburban and rural areas but nowdays OSHA and the insurance companies are paranoid about somebody falling in a hole.
Invest in a good chain link fence that you can reuse. Stick some barbed wire or razor wire coils on top. At the bottom of the interior side lay out some loose barbed wire in case somebody cuts the fence or tries to drive through it. The kind of dog that needs to be shot with a transquilizer gun before unlocking also helps.
By the way, most doberman pinschers make for great lap dogs except for the weight.
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