Fountain power cord splice inaccessible underground

[MAC702]

This is not related to the fountain question I posted in another thread.

My friend has a fountain that stopped working. I made sure it still has power, so it appears the little submersible pump has gone bad. Just getting to that damn pump was a lot of work of lifting heavy, awkward rocks off over the discharge tube and finally getting to the underside of the last one in the column. As I'm looking for a new pump, my research shows them coming with a cord, but none would be long enough to match the existing condition where the power cord goes through a duct-sealed hole in that bottom rock and pops up underneath the receptacle on the wall, and then is plugged-in. Now my brain is starting to realize just how weird this is. Since the molded plug wasn't pulled through the conduit, they must have opened up the submersible pump and then pulled the cord through and hooked it up. But the pump appears factory-sealed.

And WTH? I then notice that the color of the cord coming from the pump is black. The color of the cord coming up under the receptacle is green, reminding me of a cheap extension cord. The distance is about ten feet and all under thick paving stones. As I leave town for a couple weeks she takes pictures and goes to the high-end landscaping place where she paid to have this fountain installed. They tell her they are not responsible for anything and will happily bill her to replace the pump. I am not satisfied by this. I will be going on Wednesday morning with help to get to the bottom of this, literally.

Anyone have experience on fountains to know what's normal for installation, or to know what kinds of shenanigans to expect from a landscaping outfit?

I doubt it would matter, but this is Clark County, NV, jurisdiction, and was probably the 2014 or previous Code cycle.

 

[hbiss]

See 680.50. The cord can be spliced with the proper potted splice kit.

-Hal

 

[MAC702]

Now that's an interesting theory. Thank you! Assuming this was done, could I use a waterproof splice in the fountain water itself and not worry about what's underground? Are these reliable? If so, any recommendations? We are talking about probably 16 or 14-gauge wires.

 

[StarCat]

Fountain Setup

Fountain Setup

Now that's an interesting theory. Thank you! Assuming this was done, could I use a waterproof splice in the fountain water itself and not worry about what's underground? Are these reliable? If so, any recommendations? We are talking about probably 16 or 14-gauge wires.

I took care of one Property that had 3 Fountains. What a Maintenance headache. The better way to set these things up is to have a Junction Box near the pool and let the necessary cables cascade into the water from their. The one you are describing sounds like going to war every time there is a problem.

 

[Barbqranch]

I would not open up the pump to connect new wires. Too much chance of introducing a leak.

If I had to re-wire it, I would splice on a new cord, and tape it well. I have had electrical tape connections underwater for 20 years or more that never leaked. I would also run the new wire all the way to the pump chamber plus some more, so that if it is necessary to replace the pump, you can easily access the buried wire and not worry about the junction.

 

[hbiss]

I would not open up the pump to connect new wires. Too much chance of introducing a leak.

If I had to re-wire it, I would splice on a new cord, and tape it well. I have had electrical tape connections underwater for 20 years or more that never leaked.

I wouldn't be worried about the splice failing as much as the tape failing, energizing the water and somebody reaching into the water getting electrocuted. This is NOT the way to do it!

-Hal

 

[Barbqranch]

I wouldn't be worried about the splice failing as much as the tape failing, energizing the water and somebody reaching into the water getting electrocuted. This is NOT the way to do it!

-Hal

Isn't that why it is on a GFI circuit?

I should note when I did this it was in a small shallow well, so it was unlikely anyone could reach in. I zip tied the tape so it couldn't unwrap.

But even so, better underwater splice kit are available, but I still think it should be located in the pump chamber, rather than underground or under cement.

 

[hbiss]

Isn't that why it is on a GFI circuit?

The GFI is there to prevent an accident, not protect against stupid.

-Hal

 

[MAC702]

The pump chamber is under the bottom rock of the column of rocks in the pool of water. This is where the new splice will be, then. Looks like there is no need (?) to investigate their splice underground, likely in conduit underground under the paving stones. The entire circuit is GFCI protected from a receptacle in the garage. I found some waterproof butt-connectors. I'm thinking I can use three of those, and then also heat-shrink the entire splice for extra security. If there is a fault, what can happen? That's not rhetorical.

No issues with the landscapers splicing a factory cord to an extension cord in conduit? Thought I'd get more from that one. Supposedly this is a big licensed company. I'm wondering if they do this kind of work outside the scope of their license; and knowledge, apparently.

 

[kwired]

This is not related to the fountain question I posted in another thread.

My friend has a fountain that stopped working. I made sure it still has power, so it appears the little submersible pump has gone bad. Just getting to that damn pump was a lot of work of lifting heavy, awkward rocks off over the discharge tube and finally getting to the underside of the last one in the column. As I'm looking for a new pump, my research shows them coming with a cord, but none would be long enough to match the existing condition where the power cord goes through a duct-sealed hole in that bottom rock and pops up underneath the receptacle on the wall, and then is plugged-in. Now my brain is starting to realize just how weird this is. Since the molded plug wasn't pulled through the conduit, they must have opened up the submersible pump and then pulled the cord through and hooked it up. But the pump appears factory-sealed.

And WTH? I then notice that the color of the cord coming from the pump is black. The color of the cord coming up under the receptacle is green, reminding me of a cheap extension cord. The distance is about ten feet and all under thick paving stones. As I leave town for a couple weeks she takes pictures and goes to the high-end landscaping place where she paid to have this fountain installed. They tell her they are not responsible for anything and will happily bill her to replace the pump. I am not satisfied by this. I will be going on Wednesday morning with help to get to the bottom of this, literally.

Anyone have experience on fountains to know what's normal for installation, or to know what kinds of shenanigans to expect from a landscaping outfit?

I doubt it would matter, but this is Clark County, NV, jurisdiction, and was probably the 2014 or previous Code cycle.

Have you confirmed the splice condition? Maybe pump didn't fail?

 

[MAC702]

Have you confirmed the splice condition? Maybe pump didn't fail?

This is a good point and was going to be the first thing I did tomorrow morning, IF I can figure out how. When I was last there a couple weeks ago, the pump cord at the water (past the splice) was "hot" with my non-contact tester. But a failed neutral would still cause that. I will have to find a way to test the continuity of the splice, preferably without opening up the pump.

I should be able to test resistance from line to neutral on the plug, and a good splice will show me the motor windings. Right?

 

[GoldDigger]

Yes. Unless there is both an open conductor and a conductor to conductor short that does not trip OCPD for some reason.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[kwired]

This is a good point and was going to be the first thing I did tomorrow morning, IF I can figure out how. When I was last there a couple weeks ago, the pump cord at the water (past the splice) was "hot" with my non-contact tester. But a failed neutral would still cause that. I will have to find a way to test the continuity of the splice, preferably without opening up the pump.

I should be able to test resistance from line to neutral on the plug, and a good splice will show me the motor windings. Right?

I'd check that first. If no continuity I'd cut the splice out and check again, nothing to lose if there is no continuity at the plug, it is either the motor has a problem or the cord has a problem, cord is probably easiest to solve so check it first, especially if there is any question of integrity of the splice method. If it a question of water leakage -you would think you would be tripping GFCI, presuming there is one .

I fixed a pond pump recently for someone, was not a cheap pump, stainless motor housing, oil filled, but inside was a failed capacitor, replaced it and it was fine. No splice in the cord, but the cord on this one seemed to be a mile long.

 

[MAC702]

So when I removed the duct seal in the bottom of the fountain and tugged on the cord a little, their splice was just underneath it, inside the 3/4 conduit. It was made up with the blue gel-filled wire nuts on the hot and neutral, and no wire nut at all on the grounds, just twisted together. I was able to pull it out and just replace the pump cord from this point. I used waterproof, heat-shrunk, glue-filled crimp-on butt-splice connectors on all three wires. We reassembled all the stones in the column with the tube going up through (impossible for one person to do this themselves), and the fountain is working perfectly again. Thanks to all for the brainstorming. I'm still pretending that there is not an extension cord spliced to a pump cord in an underground conduit, though.

 

[kwired]

So when I removed the duct seal in the bottom of the fountain and tugged on the cord a little, their splice was just underneath it, inside the 3/4 conduit. It was made up with the blue gel-filled wire nuts on the hot and neutral, and no wire nut at all on the grounds, just twisted together. I was able to pull it out and just replace the pump cord from this point. I used waterproof, heat-shrunk, glue-filled crimp-on butt-splice connectors on all three wires. We reassembled all the stones in the column with the tube going up through (impossible for one person to do this themselves), and the fountain is working perfectly again. Thanks to all for the brainstorming. I'm still pretending that there is not an extension cord spliced to a pump cord in an underground conduit, though.

Was there GFCI protection? find it hard to believe there wasn't enough leakage to trip it.

 

[MAC702]

Yes, it is powered from a GFCI receptacle in the garage, to a switch in garage, to a receptacle on the porch wall. From under this receptacle, there is a conduit with the extension cord coming out of it that comes from under the fountain. This is what you get from paying the big bucks to have a high-end landscaping nursery in the city install the fountain you buy from them.

 

[kwired]

Yes, it is powered from a GFCI receptacle in the garage, to a switch in garage, to a receptacle on the porch wall. From under this receptacle, there is a conduit with the extension cord coming out of it that comes from under the fountain. This is what you get from paying the big bucks to have a high-end landscaping nursery in the city install the fountain you buy from them.

To a pond or to some above ground fountain structure? I have no issue with the conduit concept either way - makes for easier removal/replacement of the cord. Without the conduit you are either direct burying the cord or laying in bottom of a pond. I'd rather see shrink tube sealing methods if you are going to splice the cord.

If a receptacle could have been placed closer and eliminated the need to splice cord is another story, landscape crew probably shouldn't be installing such a receptacle though.