FPE panel issue

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brother

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Well ive visited a 'persons' house and they have an old 'FPE panel'. I remember hearing about those panels being recalled or they had trouble with the breakers tripping.

Well this homeowner doesnt have the money to change out the panel, but part of the house has that old knob and tube, and the other part does not. long story short, they would like to have a gfci (they heard about this from others) installed in this panel, (cost effectiveness) instead of gfci receptacles. They have a lot of 2 wire, and aparently its too expensive to just pull in new circuits with grounds.

I know they can be 'downstreamed' fed with the gfci at the head, but just how bad are these FPE panels?? I was hoping they would just go head and change the panel.
 
GFCI breakers are available for FPE panels, but they're expensive as hell (about 360 bucks). You'd be better off to put GFCI receptacles next to the panel for each circuit you want to GFCI protect.
 
The GFI is not going to change what made FPE get recalled. They would not trip when overloaded, nor will a GFI. So you aren't really fixing much without a panel change.
 
mdshunk said:
GFCI breakers are available for FPE panels, but they're expensive as hell (about 60 bucks). You'd be better off to put GFCI receptacles next to the panel for each circuit you want to GFCI protect.
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Only $60? Last time I even saw one it was around $180 for an FPE GFCI breaker.
 
mdshunk said:
GFCI breakers are available for FPE panels, but they're expensive as hell (about 360 bucks). You'd be better off to put GFCI receptacles next to the panel for each circuit you want to GFCI protect.
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Youve GOT to be kidding me!! $360 THREE HUNDRED SIXTY DOLLARS!! i could buy all gfci receptacles and install them at EVERY location in this house and it would be cheaper than that!!

This has got be a typo. right?
 
brother said:
Youve GOT to be kidding me!! $360 THREE HUNDRED SIXTY DOLLARS!! i could buy all gfci receptacles and install them at EVERY location in this house and it would be cheaper than that!!

This has got be a typo. right?
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Nope. Search online for yourself. There's used one's closer to 50, but new are around 350-400 bucks.

Scroll down to FPE-20GFI on this page: http://www.aplussupply.com/break/fpe/plug/plugn.htm
 
Change the panel or burn to death. The worst burn I ever got was on a 15 a fpe breaker I have deep scars on my hand from that one. No trip death equipment.
 
I jjust replace 3 old FPE panels installed in the 70s.
I directled shorted the wires together at a receptacle &
the breakers would not trip.... not good, except for welding.
 
They would not trip when overloaded,
i was involved in the FPE recall and no residential panels or circuit breakers were in the recall notice we had. The issue was commercial CBs at 480 VAC had improper interrupting ratings.

NOW that is not to say FPE was a good choice and if I had FPE I would replace the panel. For me the issue I noted over the years was lousy CB to bus stabs.

1. Do a through visually inspection of the panel and bus.
2. Operate all CBs a few times.
3. Perform an FOP test on the main and branch CBs (load them up as much as possible).

Anybody have any FPR residential CB send me a few I'll test them and lets see how many fail.
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acrwc10 said:
The GFI is not going to change what made FPE get recalled. They would not trip when overloaded, nor will a GFI. So you aren't really fixing much without a panel change.
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Did FPE stuff actually get recalled or did they simply go out of business? I thought that I read somewhere that the breakers still had a UL listing. I also believe the problems had more to do with short circuits and ground faults than overloads. You could weld with those those CB's without tripping anything.
 
infinity said:
Did FPE stuff actually get recalled or did they simply go out of business? I thought that I read somewhere that the breakers still had a UL listing. I also believe the problems had more to do with short circuits and ground faults than overloads. You could weld with those those CB's without tripping anything.
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Ok, so the gfci receptacles would be 'better' than nothing in my opinion, they would handle the ground faults but not the shorts or overloads. Until more money comes available this is the route to take. looks like some circuit tracing to do to find the lead receptacle to try to lower the costs. This is residential, and always thought that most of those 'bad' fpe panels/breakers were unsed mostly in commercial.
 
brother said:
Ok, so the gfci receptacles would be 'better' than nothing in my opinion, they would handle the ground faults but not the shorts or overloads. Until more money comes available this is the route to take. looks like some circuit tracing to do to find the lead receptacle to try to lower the costs. This is residential, and always thought that most of those 'bad' fpe panels/breakers were unsed mostly in commercial.
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Is the panel surface mounted? You might find it easier to put the GFCI's right next to the panel with chase nipples and 4-squares.
 
brother said:
Ok, so the gfci receptacles would be 'better' than nothing in my opinion, they would handle the ground faults but not the shorts or overloads. Until more money comes available this is the route to take. looks like some circuit tracing to do to find the lead receptacle to try to lower the costs. This is residential, and always thought that most of those 'bad' fpe panels/breakers were unsed mostly in commercial.
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"but part of the house has that old knob and tube"
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On K&T you are not going to be able to find the first receptacle then load side the others due to the way it is run and tapped. You are stuck with GFIs at the panel or GFIs at all boxes.
 
brother said:
I will look into that, but it appears that they have alot of mwbc. I know gfci do not like shared neutrals, so i might have do the tracing anyways and just install inside the house.

This panel is outside. ;)
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Double yikes. K&T was normally wired like a spur type system. There is no true "first receptacle" The only good way to do this is to change the panel. They're going to have the same money in your labor and GFCI's as it is.
 
infinity said:
Did FPE stuff actually get recalled or did they simply go out of business? I thought that I read somewhere that the breakers still had a UL listing. I also believe the problems had more to do with short circuits and ground faults than overloads. You could weld with those those CB's without tripping anything.
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no one has the recall list - i recently worked in some FPE panels that had the recalled breakers in them, they were already updated to GE breakers (looked like the early 80's) and as for FPE going out of buisiness they were aquired by several different companies over the course of the years. It is my understanding that the affected breakers had a falsified UL listing - they lied about the AIC i believe - their stab lok line has never been recalled and as the links show you can still get brand spanking new breakers for those panels , and as short circut said
"I directled shorted the wires together at a receptacle &
the breakers would not trip.... not good, except for welding. "
that seems to be a common characteristic of FPE products and is the reason I now own a circut tracer - two helpers almost set some office furniture on fire trying to trip a circuit in an FPE panel :cool: poor form at best
however when these breakers had two 15 amp drills hooked to them they triped quick soo... this debate goes ....
 
I think it was the magnetic trip or maybe the lack of, was the issue, If they did have the combo magnetic/thermal trip the magnetic was set too high. They seemed to work OK on overloads, it was short circuits that was there problem.
 
brian john said:
i was involved in the FPE recall and no residential panels or circuit breakers were in the recall notice we had. The issue was commercial CBs at 480 VAC had improper interrupting ratings.
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I think this is a reminder of that recall. This was found on a commercial distribution panel.

FPEWarning.jpg
 
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