Per electrical utility power provider cannot said the name here, I need to convert a Talon 9817-9526 Meter Socket from 3 - phase to accept single phase residential parallel service 600 amps and with feed 3 - 200 amp panels. I understand if you do not agree with this request, the model choice, process or etc. However, after many many months of back and forth I need to make sure this is done correctly because I have received conflicting information. The 600 amp service is being fee by 2 sets of 4/0 triplex aluminum wires in 2 inch underground conduit. Again I do NOT agree with many of these specs, but this is where we are and I have no power to force electrical utility power provider to make or use other materials etc. I believe Line 1 (A phase and Line 2 (C phase) are used and the B phase (middle) is just not connect. Thank you in advance.
FPL - 600 amp service
- Thread starter LAT
- Start date
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WireBiter
Member
- Location
- Washington state
- Occupation
- Electrician + HVAC
This sure seems correct... I worked as an engineer for high-end revenue metering, but on the distribution (and transmission) side of life.
Revenue meters usually leverage Blondel's electrical theorem which states that you can meter a 3-wire system with only two watt-hour elements. Here seems like a great resource for meter arrangements: https://www.glems.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Wiring-Diagrams_Website-Revised.pdf.
I think what you want is a 5S meter configuration, which you will see that phase A and C are metered and phase B is calculated. This is a very standard arrangement. Hope this helps!
Revenue meters usually leverage Blondel's electrical theorem which states that you can meter a 3-wire system with only two watt-hour elements. Here seems like a great resource for meter arrangements: https://www.glems.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Wiring-Diagrams_Website-Revised.pdf.
I think what you want is a 5S meter configuration, which you will see that phase A and C are metered and phase B is calculated. This is a very standard arrangement. Hope this helps!
Thank you. I truly appreciate your feedback and resources. The reason why this entire thing is such an issue is due to the fact that 3 phase usually run 600 amps. And this utility will not allow us to use CT metering at 600 amps, because we would need to go to 800 amps. The electricians, plural, do not like the 4/0 triplex in 2" conduit and want the utility to use at least 250 kcmil triplex in 3 " for safety etc. The utilities will not and their thinking is - it will never pull over 400 amps at one time, but this is a massive house with only electric utilities no gas and has three tankless water heaters that pull 450 amps, plus, pools with heaters, saunas, car chargers, three full kitchens, 3 laundry rooms, 4 ac's with 10 kw heat, but we are not above the load, according to the utility, to get 800 amps and use CT metering. The entire meter and 4/0 issues makes the electricians nervous and I just want it done right and safely. We have already had to bore under part of the one structure because the utility change the power source location. I know in the past the utilities do not care if their wires get toasted, but again I want to be safe and do this correctly and not cut any unknown corners. Thank you.
Where does the conduit begin and end? Is this from a utility pole or transformer to the meter ?
If its on the utility side it really does not matter what we electricians or inspectors think, thats part of a 'utility distribution system' not premises wiring and not subject to the NEC.
You need to determine where the 'service point' is with your inspector (AHJ). The NEC does apply after the 'service point'.
Thank you. I am doing a poor job keeping this focused on the meter socket wiring. To answer your question: and again I know this is not "correct" per se, the current alleged power source is now a handhold located at the perimeter of the property that has two parallel 4/0 triplex that currently feeds two houses 200 amps each and is supposed to also feed the subject house with 600 amps. The same transformer that feeds the handhold is closer to the meter location than the handhold. What happened is they bore a single 2" conduit under the road which was a mistake that we warned them it needed two conduit at least and now do not want to bore a second line because they paid for that. We have to pay for the conduit to the handhold. They obviously run the wires etc. Our goal is to figure out the meter socket issue and check and recheck that and then go above and beyond our due diligence and let the utility figure it out if it does not work. None of this is being hidden from the client. They know that we are doing everything we can do this right and safely. Again this is a process that started many months ago. And the meter socket issue is where we are at now. Thank you for all your help.
chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
FPL knows what they are doing. Don't lose any sleep over this.
Regrettably, that is frequently not the case. I must emphasize, however, that the question pertains specifically to the meter can, not to unrelated or uninformed commentary. It is important to recognize that ignorance in this area has, unfortunately, resulted in countless utility caused serious injuries and fatalities. I will not turn a blind eye to yet another cycle of patently dangerous ideas and designs, hoping that an accident does not occur. So, I thank you for reminding me precisely of the kind of thought process I must be careful to avoid. Again, thank you.
Check with the POCO how they want that 3-phase k base meter wired for single phase metering, its entirely dependent on their meter shop.
Some three phase services such as the open delta the C is the phase with the higher voltage to ground, to convert to single phase only they would omit the 'C' phase.
zbang
Senior Member
- Location
- Roughly 5346 miles from Earls Court
Legal Citation to a case? Is this a serious question regarding the meter can?
This is very helpful. I truly appreciate those intelligent and thoughtful responses I have received. Thank you.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Did I miss the explanation of the system?
The OP said the plan was for a 3-phase service, but that the POCO wanted to provide only single phase.
We got into how to use single phase metering on 3-phase systems, which is not the same thing as what I read in the OP.
The OP said the plan was for a 3-phase service, but that the POCO wanted to provide only single phase.
We got into how to use single phase metering on 3-phase systems, which is not the same thing as what I read in the OP.
I respectfully express some difficulty in understanding the relevance of your response. It appears you are advocating a specific course of action based on the presumption that all previous contributions to this discussion have been technically sound and well-reasoned. You are now inquiring about my classification or role as a contractor. I would appreciate clarification as to how this line of inquiry directly informs or addresses the technical question I originally raised concerning the specifications and suitability of a particular meter can. My intent is to resolve an issue of an installation detail, and I would prefer to remain focused on that objective. Thank you.
Barbqranch
Senior Member
- Location
- Arcata, CA
- Occupation
- Plant maintenance electrician Semi-retired
I am by no means an expert in this area. However, if I was involved, and the homeowner was providing the conduit, I would run 3 inch just in case.
And respectfully I ask what type of contractor are you? With that said, you can go to FP&L's meter info for what they allow for meters.
This is not something you have control over, the POCO will tell you what they want and what they will connect to.
I read it as the POCO is using a rare 'K base' or bolt in meter, I have not seen one in ages, and only on very large estates with true 400 - 600 Amp split phases services, not to be confused with more typical '320 amp' meters. @Hv&Lv would know more about them.
the utility is requiring a Siemens Talon 9817-9526:
I now I think my previous comment was for somthing else not a k-base, but the OP really needs to ask the POCO. I think a k-base is wired like this:
I agree. Thank you.
I agree with you. Thank you.
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