An inspector from OSHA's On-Site Consultation Program went through our plant last week and hammered us for not having electricians in FRC (fire resistant clothing, ie. Nomex)per 70 E. Most companies I talk with including several IBEW people say they don't wear it either, just heavy, all cotton clothing.....is this a requirement????? Looking for help!jmcgillivray@scotforge.com
FRC Clothing per NEC
- Thread starter sfsafety
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
When there is only a low incident energy available 100% cotton clothing may be suitable for providing the required protection. Someone will have to do the arc/flash/blast calculations to find out what type of clothing is required. As far as most electricians not wearing fire retardant clothing, I'm not surprised. Most electricians still work circuits hot in violation of the OSHA rules.
Don
When there is only a low incident energy available 100% cotton clothing may be suitable for providing the required protection. Someone will have to do the arc/flash/blast calculations to find out what type of clothing is required. As far as most electricians not wearing fire retardant clothing, I'm not surprised. Most electricians still work circuits hot in violation of the OSHA rules.
Don
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
What Don is describing is for Hazard Risk Catagory 0.
Examples of work that is permitted in a 240 volt panelboard are:
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Examples of work that is permitted in a 480 volt panelboard are:
</font>
Doing any other "hot" work requires more PPE as follows:
Determining PPE Selection Using Hazard Risk Categories or Tables
0 Untreated cotton and safety glasses
1 FR shirt plus FR pants or Regular weight (minimum 12 oz/yd2 fabric weight), untreated, denim cotton blue jeans are acceptable in lieu of FR pants and safety glasses.
2 Cotton underwear plus FR shirt & FR pants. If the FR pants have a minimum ATPV of 8, long pants of untreated natural fiber are not required beneath the FR pants, hard hat, safety glasses or safety goggles, leather gloves, and leather work shoes. A double-layer switching hood and hearing protection are required for the tasks designated 2* in Table 3-3.9.1 of Part II.
3 Cotton underwear plus FR shirt & FR pants plus FR coverall. Alternate is to use two sets of FR coveralls (each with a minimum ATPV of 5) over untreated natural fiber clothing, instead of FR coveralls over FR shirt and FR pants over untreated natural fiber clothing. Hard hat / FR hard hat liner, safety glasses or safety goggles, face protection with a double layer switching hood, hearing protection, leather gloves, and leather work shoes.
4 Cotton underwear plus FR shirt & FR pants plus flash suit jacket and pants 2 layer. Hard hat / FR hard hat liner, safety glasses or safety goggles, face protection with a double layer switching hood, hearing protection, leather gloves, and leather work shoes.
What Don is describing is for Hazard Risk Catagory 0.
Examples of work that is permitted in a 240 volt panelboard are:
</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Circuit breaker (CB) or fused switch operation with covers on</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">CB or fused switch operation with covers off</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Opening hinged covers (to expose bare, energized parts)</font>
Examples of work that is permitted in a 480 volt panelboard are:
</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">CB or fused switch operation with covers on</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">CB or fused switch or starter operation with enclosure doors closed</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Reading a panel meter while operating a meter switch</font>
Doing any other "hot" work requires more PPE as follows:
Determining PPE Selection Using Hazard Risk Categories or Tables
0 Untreated cotton and safety glasses
1 FR shirt plus FR pants or Regular weight (minimum 12 oz/yd2 fabric weight), untreated, denim cotton blue jeans are acceptable in lieu of FR pants and safety glasses.
2 Cotton underwear plus FR shirt & FR pants. If the FR pants have a minimum ATPV of 8, long pants of untreated natural fiber are not required beneath the FR pants, hard hat, safety glasses or safety goggles, leather gloves, and leather work shoes. A double-layer switching hood and hearing protection are required for the tasks designated 2* in Table 3-3.9.1 of Part II.
3 Cotton underwear plus FR shirt & FR pants plus FR coverall. Alternate is to use two sets of FR coveralls (each with a minimum ATPV of 5) over untreated natural fiber clothing, instead of FR coveralls over FR shirt and FR pants over untreated natural fiber clothing. Hard hat / FR hard hat liner, safety glasses or safety goggles, face protection with a double layer switching hood, hearing protection, leather gloves, and leather work shoes.
4 Cotton underwear plus FR shirt & FR pants plus flash suit jacket and pants 2 layer. Hard hat / FR hard hat liner, safety glasses or safety goggles, face protection with a double layer switching hood, hearing protection, leather gloves, and leather work shoes.
karl riley
Senior Member
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
Charlie, just to confirm:
When I remove a panel cover and take measurements in a 240V panel, all I need for clothing is 100% cotton and protective glasses?
Just for curiosity, am I exempt as a consultant (not an employee)?
Karl
Charlie, just to confirm:
When I remove a panel cover and take measurements in a 240V panel, all I need for clothing is 100% cotton and protective glasses?
Just for curiosity, am I exempt as a consultant (not an employee)?
Karl
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
Karl, the clothing (protection) required is determined by the fault current available. An arc blast calculation gives a number in calories, but Betty Crocker calories, but heat calories.
The formula in NFPA 70E is only good for SC currents of 15,000 and greater. Most residental services have much less than 10,000A available.
Karl, the clothing (protection) required is determined by the fault current available. An arc blast calculation gives a number in calories, but Betty Crocker calories, but heat calories.
The formula in NFPA 70E is only good for SC currents of 15,000 and greater. Most residental services have much less than 10,000A available.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
Thanks Tom. Karl, I don't think anyone is exempt. However, OSHA has not yet adopted 70E and Indiana has not adopted it yet. OSHA is in the process and it will be enforced after that happens.
Until it happens, the rules should still be followed to be safe.
Thanks Tom. Karl, I don't think anyone is exempt. However, OSHA has not yet adopted 70E and Indiana has not adopted it yet. OSHA is in the process and it will be enforced after that happens.
Until it happens, the rules should still be followed to be safe.
ron
Senior Member
- Location
- New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
I believe that OSHA has adopted the 1984 version of NFPA 70E. The recently enforced the 2000 version of NFPA 70E for one of the large automotive companies.
I believe that OSHA has adopted the 1984 version of NFPA 70E. The recently enforced the 2000 version of NFPA 70E for one of the large automotive companies.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
OSHA can and has used national recognized standards for enforcement without actually adopting the standard.
Look at the following from an OSHA interpretation letter
OSHA can and has used national recognized standards for enforcement without actually adopting the standard.
Look at the following from an OSHA interpretation letter
Don
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
Karl,
The following is from the same letter that I quoted in my previous post.
Karl,
The following is from the same letter that I quoted in my previous post.
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
Just seems to me that the person in the field is the one without an easy method to calculate the potential hazard to him/her self.
The calcuation needs plenty of detail(s) that the average person doing the actual work in the field does not have available.
Several years ago I proposed having a DATE added to the provisions of 110.22 ( 2nd paragraph ), which was not accepted.
Yes the ASCC may be altered from that date, but the worker could at least make a judgment if alteration had taken place since that DATE.
gwz2
Just seems to me that the person in the field is the one without an easy method to calculate the potential hazard to him/her self.
The calcuation needs plenty of detail(s) that the average person doing the actual work in the field does not have available.
Several years ago I proposed having a DATE added to the provisions of 110.22 ( 2nd paragraph ), which was not accepted.
Yes the ASCC may be altered from that date, but the worker could at least make a judgment if alteration had taken place since that DATE.
gwz2
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
There is a waiver for performing the calculations for arc blast.
In Part II of NFPA 70E you will not be required to perform the calculations if you wear PPE to the highest level of arc blast for the equipment being worked on. This would require the most restrictive type of equipment, but it does relieve one of trying to figure the calculations.
Pierr
There is a waiver for performing the calculations for arc blast.
In Part II of NFPA 70E you will not be required to perform the calculations if you wear PPE to the highest level of arc blast for the equipment being worked on. This would require the most restrictive type of equipment, but it does relieve one of trying to figure the calculations.
Pierr
jake benninger
Member
- Location
- New York
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
For all those that are interested in NFPA 70E (that should be any one involved in electrical work), you may want to take a look at the NFPA ROP, ROC and the preprint of the revision scheduled for this year. All that information is available on the NFPA home page.
For all those that are interested in NFPA 70E (that should be any one involved in electrical work), you may want to take a look at the NFPA ROP, ROC and the preprint of the revision scheduled for this year. All that information is available on the NFPA home page.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
There is a very good series of articles in the May June issue of the IAEI magazine on arc blast.
Cotton clothing can be acceptable for lower levels of arc blasts.
The key is to determine ahead of time what the arc blast energy is, post it on the panels with the requried PPE, I believe this will be required in the 2005 NEC.
Or don't work hot.
There is a very good series of articles in the May June issue of the IAEI magazine on arc blast.
Cotton clothing can be acceptable for lower levels of arc blasts.
The key is to determine ahead of time what the arc blast energy is, post it on the panels with the requried PPE, I believe this will be required in the 2005 NEC.
Or don't work hot.
Re: FRC Clothing per NEC
Tom,
I believe the rules say the requires PPE must be worn until the gear is proven de energized. So even though you have turned off the equipment, you still must wear the appropriate protection while disassembling and proving it to be de energized with your tester.
Tom,
I believe the rules say the requires PPE must be worn until the gear is proven de energized. So even though you have turned off the equipment, you still must wear the appropriate protection while disassembling and proving it to be de energized with your tester.
- Status